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Subject: 04/25/91 - The National Midnight Star #224

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          The National Midnight Star, Number 224

                 Thursday, 25 April 1991
Today's Topics:
                   Re: Mossy's message.
                        HYF cover
             Headphones trick with CD players
                     Headphone Trick
                     Gary Lee Weinrib
                    Oracle: The Dream
      Camera Eye phrases and Headphone trick, cont.
            Guitar sound on 'Time Stand Still'
                      Hey NO Flames!
      Re: 04/24/91 - The National Midnight Star #223
       Guitar sound on Time Stand/ New album title

From: Chris Marshall 
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 19:39:32 +0200
Subject: Re: Mossy's message.

In NMS#221, Moschops ( writes:-

>        Well thats my $0.02  for the day.

An English person using Americanisms... :-)

>BTW , Hi to Chris Marshall at Hatfield - When will we have this Jam?

Yarg, quite... Not for while I'm afraid Mossy... I've been asked to stand in
for the bass player in another band. I think we'll be doing gigs at the
end of may. I'm glad you contacted me via NMS 'cos I can plug the gigs to
all the brits on the list :-) ***More info to come***

Changing the subject completely - along to drummers. I think that Neil
is a very good drumer (don't we all). Some of his lines sound fairly
ordinary until you *really* listen to them, at which point you start to
wonder how the hell he does it... Anyway, people seem top be throwing names
into the melting pot, so, has anyone got any opinions of Pick Withers? He
was with Dire Straits for the first couple of albums, but I don't know where
he went then... Weather Report?

Oh well, enough drivel. I've just spent the day walking round a computer
show and I want to go to sleep.

Chris Marshall.

*      This is a Vax 8650 Somethingorother running Berserkley 4.3 Unix       *
* Chris Marshall,         * JANET:                                           *
* 2nd Year BSc CS Degree, *        [use your    *
* Hatfield Polytechnic,   * (blech)  fave bounce *
* Hatfield,               *           site for    *
* Herts. UK.              * UUCP:                                the UK]     *
* Phone    +44 727 810402 *   ...!ukc!hatfield!cs2ct                         *


From: Kenneth Mark Maxham 
Subject: HYF cover
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 17:00:34 CDT

A while back a friend of mine asserted that the three spheres on
the HYF cover might be an allusion to a passage in Rand's
_Fountainhead_ (one of my favorite books.)  However, I'm not sure,
in the particular passage, why, on p. 314, a character compares
humanity to three gilded spheres (the exact wording eludes me.)
Do any of the Rand freaks out there have any insight on this?


\ Mark Maxham  \ No, his mind is not for rent, to any god or government \
 \ \ ... he knows changes aren't permanent.  But change is. \


Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 15:55:12 PDT
From: Mark Lent 
Subject: Headphones trick with CD players

In TNMS #223 numerous people lambasted some guy for saying he could
remove some tracks from 'Witch Hunt' in order to hear the chanting
better.  Well, I am coming to his rescue and say he ain't foolin'
and get out of town with the balance knob thing.
Proof:  I got the original master recording of Pink Floyd's The Wall.
I listened to Disk One and heard everything fine until the very last
track 'Goodbye'.  Well I was so peeved I almost took the thing back
to the store right then.  But I had gotten such a sweet deal on it,
I reconsidered.  Anyway, a couple of days later I listened to it
without headphones and I was totally surprised to hear lyrics during
'Goodbye'.  When I put the headphones in the jack, the words were gone.
I tried a different set of headphones and the words didn't disappear.
As the words are NOT on only the left or right side, the balance argument
is null and void.

--Mark Lent


Date: 24 Apr 91 18:29 -0500
Subject: Headphone Trick

>X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.1 10/31/90)

	Yesterday a few people said that the "headphone trick"
mentioned 2 days back was just the same as using a balance control.
This isn't necessarily true; by inserting the plug just far
enough it's possible that the plug ring and the plug tip are
connected to the jack "left" and jack "right" contacts, and the
sound that is heard is then the *difference* between 2 channels.
That is, you hear what is panned to the 2 sides and not what is
right up the middle.  The daring can try this, and variations on it,
on their speakers at home.  This makes it easier to hear some stuff
that's panned way off to one side, especially if normally it's
obscured by vocals and drums.

Kerry Yackoboski 	
The Scanning Tunneling Microscopy Laboratory, ECE Dept., U of Manitoba
Mysterious Moon Man of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada


Date: 24 Apr 91 18:31 -0500
Subject: Gary Lee Weinrib

>X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.1 10/31/90)

	The book "Heart of Gold", a history of Canadian rock,
provides this as Geddy Lee's real name.  We told you before,
but you wouldn't listen.  Actually , a lot of people have joined
the list since I last posted this.

Kerry Yackoboski 	
The Scanning Tunneling Microscopy Laboratory, ECE Dept., U of Manitoba
Mysterious Moon Man of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada


Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1991 20:35:05 EDT
From: Mark "Crimson" Friedman 

Good day, eh?  Well. maybe not.  Anyway, in the last issue, my brother was
defending all Guitar Synthdom against the dreadful Mos{s?}chops...

BOB>Yup, you guessed it...
BOB>It's flame Mossy time!!

And then the god-like rush-mgr intervened!  It was quite dramatic...

MGR>[ No, not necesserily.  If you remember the first piece of mail you got
MGR>  from Syrinx (welcome notice), "flames are discouraged".

Well, I'll have to take part of the blame for perpetuating this issue,
but others have also replied in kind.  Moschops was *flaming* the guitar
synth!  What could we do, stand idle and see it slandered?!?!  (.5 :-)

MGR>							Differences of
MGR>  opinion are fine, abuse is not.

Anyway, I don't think "abuse" was seen in any post, besides a few jabs
at EVH...

MGR>					Besides, you observations aren't
MGR>  necesserily valid; others agree with the original poster (see eariler
MGR>  post about the technology).

Now wait a sec: I see it the other way!  Mark Saleski writes:

MS>    well...if i didn't have a guitar synth i wouldn't be able
MS>    to play both the bass & synth parts to YYZ

Aha!  One satisfied customer!

On the other hand, Jason Bold says (with full verbosity!):

JB> As soon as they develop a half-assed guitar synth, I'll buy one.
JB> But I sure like some of the synth sounds that I have heard and would like
JB> to be able to produce them with my guitar....or make that produce them
JB> with the strings.  You kind of lose the guitar's natural sound when you
JB> use a synth.  That's what people object to.

Exactly the point.  However, Mr. Van Halen simply did not like the entire
*concept* of the guitar synth and immediately turned away from the creative
possibilities, as did Moschops...

JB>				Someone in the last Digest posted that
JB> certain things like power chords just "aren't in their vocabulary".
JB> Well, tracking is the problem.

Exactly as I, the afforementioned 'someone', said!  Not just "because
all it can make is a synthy noise"!  Definately, this is not someone who
fully supports guitar synths, but Jason can see the point of them: he
realizes that the technology is not 'up to date' yet, but isn't going
to condemn guitar synths in one thought...

MGR>  				Also, using Robert Fripp as an example
MGR>  isn't quite fair; it's like comparing you to Alex, or any other great
MGR>  guitarist.  You'd lose.

Have you ever heard Bob play?  You might want take a listen sometime.
In fact, I think he sounds like a mix between *both* Alex *and* Fripp!
(plus some Belew, and I swear there's some Martin Barre(sp) in there!)
Definately, he's not as good mechanically, but then again he's not a
professional guitarist...

> ...besides which, I think comparing Alex or Fripp to Bob wouldn't be
quite fair, either: there's *no* way they could match his physics
knowledge and conceptualization!  You'd lose.

MGR>				Please (everyone!) keep your postings civil,
MGR>  or I may have to wield this editorial sword after all...    :rush-mgr ]

Sheath that sword, ye rapscallion!  ("you *what*?")  What follows is the
majority of my brother's posting.  I believe that you will find that it
is quite articulate, informative, and *entirely* civil:

BOB>    If you found playing guitar-synth "awkward" then your technique sucks
BOB> not the synth.  You hit the nail on the head when you said "a synth is a
BOB> synth and a guitar is something else" (er, a guitar maybe?).  EXACTLY!
BOB> Well, a guitar-synth is a guitar-synth.  It is a completely new and
BOB> different instrument and you must approach it as such.  As my brother
BOB> ("Crimson") so eloquently put it " 'chucka chucka' power chords aren't
BOB> in its vocabulary."  A very controlled, accurate picking technique is
BOB> needed to effectively wield the guitar-synth.  It took me all of a few
BOB> months to tailor my style so that I could play my guitar synth well and
BOB> I've never found it "awkward" , just different.

It's true, you know.  However, I would like to suggest that any more of
this discussion should be taken to on Usenet.

						Any takers?
						- Crimson

Please forgive me, rush-mgr: with all the talk of starting moderation on, I have realized that we must have an opportunity to speak
our mind.  I realize that this list owes its existence to you and a few
others, but please do not threaten with the "editorial sword"!  If you
are as much a 'liberal' as you mentioned earlier in last issue, you will
certainly understand.  If you are to edit any materials, please base it
on whether it is relevant to Rush or not.  I admit this subject strand
has worn thin and doesn't belong here in the first place.  However,
nobody wants a flamewar either.  Is this the reason that there is no  Because we are afraid of the flames?

[ I've replied to Mark through e-mail to save space here.     :rush-mgr ]

+----====>>>))) Mark Friedman is (((<<<====----+
|  "There is nothing former  |  (Disclaimer : the opposite of Datclaimer)  |
|     about King Crimson."   |    "I used to have a photgraphic memory     |
|   - Robert Fripp, 5/11/90  |       but it was never developed..."        |
> -.---.----..-.---.----..-.---.----..-.---.----..-.---.----..-.---.----.. <


Date: 24 Apr 91 22:19:00 EDT
Subject: Oracle: The Dream

OK, I have a burning question.  As I'm sure all of you know, our
favorite Canadians don't play much of 2112 in concert any more.  In fact,
even back in the days when they played it, they had a nasty habit of
leaving out parts III and V (Discovery and Oracle).  I have an old bootleg
from The Palladium in New York (11/12/77) in which Discovery is included
in 2112, but Oracle is still missing.  Does anyone out there know of a
live version of Oracle??  If so, is 2112 complete, is Discovery included?
Does anyone know why these parts of the song were seemingly always left out
of live performances, and when they stopped including Discovery in their
live sets??

[ I've seen them since '79, and have heard quite a few live tapes.  As
  far as *I* know, "Oracle.." has NEVER been played live.  (I think this
  was mentioned in "Visions".  As for "Discovery", they didn't even play
  the whole thing on the tour following _2112_, as evidenced by their
  first live album.  I believe the Palladim is the only tape I've heard
  where all of "Discovery" is played.                          :rush-mgr ]


"Start a new chapter, I find what I'm after is changing every day..."


Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 23:56:11 -0500
From: (James Moseley)
Subject: Camera Eye phrases and Headphone trick, cont.

Sorry about that, I accidentally hit quit and the first part of the letter
was automatically sent.

[ Yes, but to where?  Not here...  :-)                          :rush-mgr ]

Anyway, everything on the drums, except for cymbals and snare, had been
cut.  For you guitarists out there, try doing this.  Since all the music
has been cut, except for the keyboards, the guitar comes through with


James Moseley

ORQ: "If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice."


Subject: Guitar sound on 'Time Stand Still'
Date: Wed, 24 Apr 91 20:41:11 CDT
From: David Sandberg 

First, with regards to all the discussion of the merits of Neal
vs. other drummers, I'd like to say that there is _no_ "world's
greatest".  I think Neal is a tremendous drummer, but I certainly
wouldn't put him in a band like R.E.M....  and visa versa.  There
plenty of room for talented people to be heard in music, and it's
not necessary to degrade all the other musicians just to elevate
any particular one.  It's not a contest.

I have similar feelings about the guitar synth discussion.  In
fact, in general I have noticed a TNMS trend as of late toward
slamming various musician or musical styles, and it's beginning
to get tiresome.  All I can say is that, as much as I've enjoyed
reading this list in the past, if the present trend continues I
can see the possibility of my unsubscribing from TMNS before much
longer.  I earnestly hope I don't end up ready to do that.

Dave Schmidt writes:
>     Alex get's some amazing sounds out of his guitar.  The guitar sound
>     in Time Stands Still is awesome.  It is a distorted sound, but with
>     a "digital" edge.  Does anyone out there know how he achieved this
>     sound?

I agree!  That certainly is a great sound, and very different
from what Alex usually employs.

I don't have any source for this other than my ears, but I think
I can imagine to some degree how Alex got it.  For starters, it
sounds very much like a single or split coil pickup position,
very bright.  From there, there's a flanging/chorusing effect on
the signal (sounds more like chorus on the album, but Alex
obviously used a flange effect live), and then compression and a
little thoughtful EQing to bring out the high mids.  Finally,
sounds like just a hint of edge (not full-on distortion) is
added, and the whole thing has a trailing slap echo of about 190

What I would like to know is what all Alex has in his effects
rack these days.  It's almost impossible to tell from the often
humorous but cryptic ramblings Alex has been spewing into their
tour guides in recent years.  Have there been any guitar magazine
interviews in the last couple of years (HYF or more recent) where
Alex really ran down his equipment list?

Waiting breathlessly for August and "Throwing The Stones" (maybe)...

OSQ%: Go North Stars!

 \*=-      David Sandberg,    ,=,       ,=,        -=*\
  \*=-      "There should have been a moment      | |uadric `=,ystems   -=*\
   \*=-       when we let our barriers fall"      `=\       `='          -=*\

 % 'Obligatory Sports Quote'


Subject: Hey NO Flames!
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 13:19:20 WET
From: Moschops 

Hey gang,
        I though flames were discouraged?
Oh well.
        To the Dudes who sent that stuff about me and my "Sucking
Technique" .....Well .... As I believe.. this list is for expressing
your own apinion...yes..?
Well that is what I thought I had done...
So I don't like Guitar Synths......Doesn't mean my technique sucks...
So these two guys decide to flame me!.

I mean... If I prefer to play keys instead of strings ( When I want
synthy sounds that is ! ) and find the guitar synths difficult - I
find them difficult ... doesn't mean everyone does! - thats my
problem...and I don't expect to be flamed for saying what I feel...

Well thanks you two ( You know how you are )
I though that Rush fans were above this Childish behavour.

[ Ok, now that you've all had your say, please direct any further discussion
  to e-mail.                                                      :rush-mgr ]

As for the real reason i mailed.

The guitar in Time_stand_still , try a "Alesis Quadraverb" with your
average distortion unit ... and BINGO digital sounding guitar.


ps Can ( is it Crimson? ) you call me Crimson - I would like a

   ------- Mike O'Donnell -------        || Thats " Moschops " to my friends
        At Thames Poly - London          || I love Rush,Queensryche and most
Janet :       || Rock/Metal bands
   (or)   || London Monarchs lead the WLAF
Purity Test Result(400 quest version)-%63||   Anything Can Happen - Rush

Flappity, floppity, flip
The mouse on the mobius strip;
	The strip revolved,
	The mouse dissolved
In a chronodimensional skip.


Subject: Re: 04/24/91 - The National Midnight Star #223
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 8:24:45 BST

Tee hee hee. It's funny to watch you all trying to figure out what is said
near the end of "The Camera Eye". Anyone who speaks British English will
recognise it immediately as "'Ello, right guv", spoken with a cockney
accent. I don't know whether MoP was mixed in London, but this would
certainly explain the accent.

I remember some discussion relating to the CD pressings of MoP. I
understand that the first pressing was poor, in that some songs were cut
off. I want to know how to distinguish between the two. Can some kind soul
please remind me?

[ The first 1/2 second or so is cut off of "Tom Sawyer" - the initial
  attack doesn't sound right.  If you bought your copy several years
  ago (I bought mine in '85), then it's suspect.            :rush-mgr ]

Also if someone could enlighten me on the availability of both pressings
in the UK I would be most greatful.

Kevin Lewis 				Knowledge Based Systems,
+44 279 429531 x2579                    Bell-Northern Reseach Europe,                     London Rd, Harlow UK. CM17 9NA
ORQ: "Too many hands on my time, too many feelings, too many things on my mind"


Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 13:55:04 EDT
From: (shane p faulkner)
Subject: Guitar sound on Time Stand/ New album title

How did Alex get his guitar sound on Time Stand Still????  My guess is he used
one of his single-coil Signatures and used a healthy dose of reverb on a
clean channel...

'Throwing the Stones'...... hmmm......  I remember someone telling me the next
album title was going to be 'Grace Under Pressure' (back in '83), and I laughed
in their face, so I'm not going to say a thing about this one...

Who would have believed 'Presto'????
/ Shane P. Faulkner         |   A to B - Different degrees...           /
/ University At Buffalo     |                          - Rush           /
/ V127L2QZ@UBVMS.CC.BITNET  |                                           /
/ |   Rush - Marillion - Kim Mitchell         /


From: (Marc Jordan)
Subject: Concerts
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 91 13:01:47 CDT

This is my first post to this group, so I`ll start off by saying that I've
listened to Rush for about 13 years.  I`ve never grown tired of their music
and never will.  There are many other bands that have come and gone for me,
but I will always listen to Rush.

These are the concerts that I've seen:

'79 Hemispheres w/April Wine.  Beaumont, TX.  March 6 I think.
'81or'82 Tour around ESL release (Tour of the Nadars?) w/?.  Lake Charles, LA
'?  Signals.  This ones a real blank for me (dammit!), I sort of partied...
	It WAS in Houston, that much I do remember!
'84 P/G w/assorted morons.  Texas Jam, Astrodome.
'86 Power Windows. Lafayette, La. w/nobody
		   Houston w/Steve Morse
'88 Hold Your Fire w/Tommy Shaw.  Austin, TX.
'90 Presto w/Mr. Bone-heads.  Houston, Tx.

I think the best show I saw was the Hemispheres show.  They were VERY tight
and played one hell of a show.  I do remember remembering that the Signals
show was fantastic, but hey, I've got a few less brain cells now.  The next
best would have to be HYF in Austin.  I thought the Presto show was great only
because we had an excellent view of Neil from behind (The sound REALLY sucked).

Marc Jordan


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(Rush Fans Mailing List)

End of The National Midnight Star Number 224

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