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Subject: 07/09/91 - The National Midnight Star #283

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          The National Midnight Star, Number 283

                   Tuesday, 9 July 1991
Today's Topics:
                     Bootleg "ethics"
      Re: 07/08/91 - The National Midnight Star #282
         Bootlegs, Ethics, and the Grateful Dead
         PGH Laser Rush and an important message
                     Random Thoughts
           A cornucopia of topics and apologies
                   SPARCSTATION sounds
               Spirit of Rush radio special
                   Philosophy and Rush
                   Christ and Schiller
                    bootlegs and such
                      Hello again...

Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 21:03:12 -0400
From: ak901@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Andy Douglass)
Subject: Bootleg "ethics"

For all you questioning the ethics of obtaining bootlegs(Mr. Mackinney,
especially) I would like to set the record straight. No pun intended...
I will hereby quote a statement made on the back of my "Rushian Roulette"

    "In accordance with and pursuant to that laid down in art. 80  and the 
     following of the Law 22/4/19411 no.633 the distributing company has 
     deposited a recompense by way of opening a deposit book in favour of 
     the bearer, to the performing artists who together form the music group,
     and to the parties entitled and/or their parties entitled as specified
     on the reverse of the cover of the sound medium, said recompense being 
     for each copy produced and distributed.[whew!]  The distribution company
     of the sound medium at issue, the trustee of the abovementioned deposit
     book, will make this available to the aforesaid parties entitled, who
     are required to submit an express request to this end."

The point is, I am putting money in their pockets. In fact, all of the 
bootlegs I've ordered, well over 10, have had these messages, all stated 
differently. The only company I've seen that really rips the artists off is
a company called "X Records".  The only record of theirs I own, ironically,
is "Red Stars of the Solar Federation", and as I mentioned before, is not 
even a real bootleg. In fact, it's a big time rip off.

   "Let us not go gently into
    the endless winter night..."
           -Rush (RED TIDE)


From: Eric Rescorla 
Subject: Bootlegging....
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 8:16:51 PDT

> Subject: Bootlegs
> Date: Mon, 08 Jul 91 12:23:33 N
> From: Gordon MacKinney 
> I've noticed a number of references to bootleg albums recently,
> as well as an occasional boot auction over the net.
> Everyone should make their own decision regarding the right or
> wrong of bootlegs, but in the interest of making informed
> decisions, people should be aware that bootleg recordings take
> money from the artists who earn it.  One might argue that only
> the record companies suffer, but everything trickles down, either
> to the normal consumer who compensates for pirated material or to
> the artist who never sees bootleg revenue.  A recent Time
> magazine article cited Frank Zappa's frustration at 400 different
> Zappa bootlegs that are on the market.
> It's ironic to see some contributors to TNMS promoting
> bootlegging while at the same time supporting the band with their
> postings.

I have been thinking about this a lot lately, and I'd like to know exactly
how. I know I've discussed this with Rush-mgr before, but I wanted to see
exactly what everyone else thought. For instance, what exactly does it cost
Rush to have us circulating, say "Temples of Syrinx." The way I see it,
anybody who's into bootlegging in any serious manner has already bought all
the albums anyway--and will continue to do so. Since any given bootleg is
most likely something that the group has not released--and hence not for sale--
how are we depriving the group of money in any way?

[ Because you might buy the bootleg of a show instead of buying the studio
  album(s) from the same show.  Of course, if you're like some of us and
  already have *everything* they offer on album/CD, then the point gets more
  moot...                                                         :rush-mgr ]

Eric Rescorla                            
Yale University Department of Chemistry   
"No his mind is not for rent--to any God or government." Peart/Dubois


Subject: Re: 07/08/91 - The National Midnight Star #282
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 91 08:53:01 EDT

ok, my $.02:
i thought the 3 balls on the cover of HYF were to represent the space
shuttle astronauts who died in the Challenger explosion.  There are 3
to represent them, just like evrything else they have has 3's in it.
it may also symbolize AR's novel's symbols, but i think that the space
shuttle theme is more apparent, especially after listening to "Mission."

BTW, anyone who doesn't own the LP version of HYF might miss the Statue
of Liberty "basking" in the corner behind the windows.  also, you might
not be able to see the time on the clock (9:12PM, or 2112 hours).

dangerous dave (looking for a job in atlanta - sigh)

If Rock 'n' Roll is responsible for teenage sex, does that mean that
Country-Western is responsible for incest? - (heard on radio)    (current CYBERNET address)     (future CYBERNET address)       (UNIX account, Gary Moore mailing list)      (something to call my own)


Date:    Tue, 9 Jul 91 08:25:45 CDT
From: smith%8616.span@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov
Subject: Bootlegs, Ethics, and the Grateful Dead

Regarding the discussion of the morality of purchasing bootlegs:

I've spoken with a person who has a massive tape collection of Grateful
Dead boots, many of which he recorded himself while following the Dead.
He has several guidelines which he follows:

1.  Never record a show which the Dead intend to record for an album.
    This takes care of the objection to taking profits out of the pocket
    of the band, because they wouldn't have gotten any anyway.  If they
    intend to record for possible later release, they let it be known
    before the show for just this reason.

2.  Never show a profit.  There is an unofficial network of boot-tape
    traders who charge maybe $2/tape for expenses.  Any excess dough
    generally gets sent to the Dead.  (Can you believe these guys?  If
    only honesty was more prevalent.)  Not to say everyone does it, but
    the ones who do get a lot of respect.

3.  Never go through a middleman.  This includes CD manufacturers and
    professional tape copiers.

What does this have to do with Rush?  Just this - if you have problems
with buying manufactured bootlegs, you might consider getting together
with those who have unofficially recorded shows.  Of course, there is a
huge difference here; security will stop you from bringing your DAT
recorder or even walkman to a Rush show, usually.  So I don't know if
there are very many homegrown tapers out there, but if there are....

The punks call this the "DYI Ethic", or "Do It Yourself."  I like it.

NOTICE:  This message does not advocate the performance of illegal
acts.  Individuals are responsible for their own actions.  (hey, I'm
on a gov't computer system.  :)

james smith (NOT the header address!)


Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 09:38:05 EDT
From: (shane p faulkner)
Subject: Various

Well, the info is out... Rush Head wasn' pulling your leg with those song
titles: "Roll the Bones", "Dreamline" and "Where's My Thing? IV The Gangster
of Boats Trilogy".

I heard about those a couple weeks ago, but my info source told me it was not
supposed to be leaked, where did you hear about them, Rushhead??

Chris Webster mentionned the Spirit of Rush radio special.  We got it here in
Buffalo Sunday night 6-9 on WUFX.  That was the lamest Rush radio special I
have EVER heard.  If you missed it and you're kicking yourself, you can stop.
The "interviews" with the boys were only responses pulled from past "Rockline"
appearances with the interviewer (Steve Downes?) splicing his questions in.
And the one response Neil gave (regarding the writing of Manhattan Project)
was pulled from an "Innerview" session with Jim Ladd (an excellent interview

In summary, if you're any kind of Rush fan, you didn't learn anything new
by listening to this special.

///////////////////////// The Gangster of Boats /////////////////////////
/ Shane P. Faulkner         |   A to B - Different degrees...           /
/ University At Buffalo     |                          - Rush           /
/ V127L2QZ@UBVMS.BITNET     |                                           /
/ |   Rush - Marillion - Kim Mitchell         /


Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 11:49:03 -0400
From: "Douglas G Schwabe" 
Subject: PGH Laser Rush and an important message


   Laser Rush is currently being shown at the Buhl Science Center Fridays and
Saturdays at 10:30 PM and will run until August 31.  Tickets are $5.50 each.
For those outside of Pittsburgh who want to see this excellent show, please
send me mail for directions.  I saw the show Friday with Ken Renard (one of
the people who brought Laser Rush to Buhl) and I was impressed beyond belief.
Thanx to Ken and John Connelly for their persistence in bringing this great
show to Pgh.


   For those who don't like the content of TNMS, please use the administative
addresses at the end of each digest (  If you have
complaints about TNMS, DON'T TAKE IT OUT ON US!!!!!!!!!!!!!  If I may make a
suggestion that the administative address be placed at the begining of each
digest.  I think, IMO, that this will eliminate any confusion on where to
send complaints or "unsubscribe me" mail.  How do you feel about this, David?

[ Oh, swell, another change!  :-)   I'll think about it.  It doesn't help
  on the Homebrew mailing list, though.  They run almost as bad (with the
  unsubscription requests) as this one, and all addresses are in the front.
                                                                 :rush-mgr ]
BudeaBudea That's all Folks!!

Douglas Schwabe


Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 11:56:41 -0400
From: jlang (~ Rush Fanatic ~)
Subject: Random Thoughts

Flames:  It's a sad case when people (won't mention any names) start flaming
other members on the list.  I would think that one of the common goals of this
list is to promote a better understanding of the group and to share some
personal reflections of their music with others.  One of the main reason if
NOT the main reason for the creation of this mailing list in the first place
is to get rid of this "flaming mindset and mentality" found so often with
Rush-bashers (a certain Scandinavian comes to mind :) on USENET newsgroups
( and alt.rock-n-roll).  A place to peacefully converse, an
alternative medium to USENET.  But lately, with all the flaming, I almost
feel as if the original intent of the list is being lost. :-(

A clear example of this would be a recent post which flamed your so-called
"Rush fanatic" as a blind worship type of fan.   This kind of flame is
the type that belongs in USENET, not on a list for Rush fans.  Such
stereotyping in the article claiming that all "Rush fanatics" give other
Rush fans a bad scoop is about as bad as Rush-bashing gets.  It would
stand to reason that a mere handful of Rush fanatics do fit the
article's description but laying blame on the mass of big-time fans is
wrong and I've witnessed it enough years in USENET to come to this
realization.  Perhaps it has something to do with my finger name or maybe
just the fact that I *am* a big nut about Rush, but I would argue that
that it is posters like that that give Rush fanatics a bad name.  Sorry,
but this kind of stereotyping that all fanatics are blind worshippers of
the band should be found in USENET, not here.  There are many of us
so-called "Rush fanatics" (some members of this list I can name), who
are given a bad rap because of flames and posts like the ones recently
in the NMS.  I for one certainly don't fit your stereotyping and
generalization. (oh, and one last thing - people who flame others over
their finger names really do show their own insecurities.)

Release Dates:  If you check out the new version of the Rush Tour Dates
Listing, there are release dates for the albums and a listing of opening
bands for various tours.  I would like to thank all the members who sent
me email with opening band information for various concerts.  (The
latest list should be in the ftp directory soon).

New Album:  well, what can I say? I'm looking forward to it.  Just the
fact that another instrumental will be worth the wait.  It's been a
while since YYZ, so hopefully this will be a rewarding moment.  I also
don't mind another triology :) Maybe another "Red" song is in order.

Bootlegs: this is a touchy subject.  A recent post mentioned
how ironic it seem that some members of the list advocate bootlegs while
at the same time showing steadfast support for the band, knowing full
well that bootlegging hurts the band.  I guess I could be said to be
guilty of this in a way.  The thing about bootlegs is that, I
personally, like listening to them.  The problem I see with it is that
the sale of bootlegs is something I cannot approve of.  I don't see a
problem (call it my ethics) with me listening to them or owning them for
that matter.  What I have a problem with are those who bootleg then try
and sell them for a quick buck or two.  This kind of attitude of let's
make a quick buck out of it disgusts me to be honest.  It's one thing
for an appreciative fan to enjoy a live recording, it's another to try
and sell it and try to make fast cash out of it.

Well, that's about it from my end, now that I've rocked the boat a
little, we'll see what kind of postings come out of this one. :)

"... ooooooooooohh baby..." - Geddy of course


Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 10:08:53 -0600
From: habbinga@tramp.Colorado.EDU (erik habbinga)
Subject: A cornucopia of topics and apologies

First, I should be shot for mis-reading Geddy's Birthday in the FAQL.  Maybe
the month should be written in all caps boldface so I don't screw up again.
Second, to flame Greg Best, you spelled excellent wrong!  Just kidding,
I am getting sort of tired of the "random flames" bit as well.  I did like
the "Grumpy old man" response, though!  I'm glad that someone finally
found the Fountainhead quote at last.  I also taped the "Spirit of Rush"
program over the weekend, but was sort of disapointed  (sp?) when they
skipped over COS, played half of La Villa, and used quotes from the
Profiled CD.   I suspect that this was a montage of interviews spliced
together, with the music thrown in for good measure.  They did play some
of the more obscure songs, like "Making Memories", "Lessons" (i think),
La Villa, and "The Body ELectric".  I suppose I could type the whole thing
in, if desired, since next month I will get the ol' Wisdom teeth out, and
will probably want to stay pretty immobile for a couple of days.  I've also
got some articles from Guitar magazines that I haven't seen posted that I
could type in as well.  The neat thing about the special was that it was
played on a local station in C. Springs that plays Rush about once a week,
switching off between "Tom Sawyer" and "Limelight" pretty regularly.  One
last thing, I think I can get some of those SPARCstation sound files, I've
seen them lying around in my forays into FTPland.  If so, should I also
get in touch with our esteemable Rush-Mgr?

Erik Habbinga
U-niversity of
C-olorado between
L-ongmont and
A-rvada                        "Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball"


Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 10:15:07 -0600
From: habbinga@tramp.Colorado.EDU (erik habbinga)
Subject: SPARCSTATION sounds

Okay, I found where to get some of the files.  What I can get are Discovery,
LaVilla, Scars, SpiritofRadio, and Temples.  Since I don't have a nifty
workstation, I don't know what these files contain, but I can get them.
E-mail me rush-mgr, if you want these files



Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 09:48:50 -0700
From: David Conley 
Subject: Spirit of Rush radio special

"Chris Webster"  writes:

>One of the local radio stations, 95X, is presently playing a holiday
>program called the Spirit of Rush.  They've said it's a satelite show,
>but I doubt that it's being done nationwide as I type this.  I'm just
>wondering if this particular show has been done before.  In case it's
>not in the archives, I'm taping it, but I've already lost some of the
>announcers' parts because they cut ends of songs short.

Nope Chris, I heard the same 3 hour long show last Saturday night in
Seattle. It was a well done show, except for the excessive amount of
commercials. It "chronicled" the career of Rush with music interspersed
with some interview dialogue from the boyz.

Interestingly enough, I was on my way to the Seattle Science Center
to take in the Rush Laser Fantasy show which just hit town, when I
flipped on the car radio at 9:00 just in time to hear the Spirit of
Rush special. Was it the Global Satellite Network that put the show

>Also, it's the first time I've heard Alex and Geddys' voices.  (Neil
>hasn't spoken yet. :[  )   When hearing their voices for the first time,
>did anyone else think they sounded like the classic nerd stereotype?
>(Boy, am I glad I witnessed them in concert before hearing this....)

Some of the interview material, and the station liner promos (Hi, this
is Neil Peart of Rush!!) was taken from the Rush Profiled! CD.
Yeah I guess Geddy does sound a bit on the nerdy side come to think of


David Conley
University of Washington School of Medicine, Seattle


Date: Tue,  9 Jul 91 12:54:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jon C. Slenk" 
Subject: Philosophy and Rush

Okay, the O word has been said a couple of times (Objectivism) in this
list. We know Neil has been influenced by Rand. What I would like to
know is:

How many Rush fans consider themselves Objectivists?
How many Rush fans consider themselves realists?
How many Rush fans consider themselves communists?
How many Rush fans consider themselves...

Tell us what your philosophy is and why you like Rush - is it because
Neil seems to be saying what you would if you could write lyrics, or is
it because you find Neil to be trite and inconsequential and so merely

Personally, I used to call myself an Objectivist. I still believe most
of the basic axioms of Objectivism, such as A is A. I think most of
America is really screwed up because people don't think. I believe
libertarians are better than most. I believe in individualism. I don't
believe in public education, social security or the draft.

So there. :-)


-Jon /


Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 15:01:24 EDT
From: (Gregg Jaeger)
Subject: Christ and Schiller

Thanks to Chris Schiller for the SNL-ish comedy!

Cam Abrams brought up the `Christ' quote from `The Pass' (Can o'
Worms?!!). There were some extensive discussions in the past which
seem to show a narrow majority in favor of the word `Christ''s
not referring in particular to _The Christ_. One thing which was
not brought up (that I can remember) which argues _in favor_ of it
having to do with _The Christ_ (and therefore being a criticism of
_The Christ_) is the occurrence of the word `martyr' in the fourth
line of the lyrics. Also `the razor's edge' may also be an allusion
to the Maugham book of the same title, which has quite a bit to do
with religion, fate, and mortality. IMHO, the reference to Christ
is intentional, but not necessarily an all-out flame of the guy,
and agree with Cam that is also a phrase of exclamation.


p.s. sorry for misspelling `gilded' as `guilded' in several places
of my last posting -- I'm not often concerned with gold or guilds!

Gregg Jaeger    (  ``Truth is after all a moving target''
Dept(s). of Physics (and Philosophy)
Boston University, Boston MA 02215     ->>READ DOS PASSOS!(his books, i.e.)<<-


Subject: bootlegs and such
From: (Jeff Pants)
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 91 10:53:42 PDT

Bootlegs GOOD! Paper towels bad! Yo there, Adrian!First off I'd like to say
"good day, eh?" And to all of you REAL rush fans, "hold your fire, keep it
burnin' bright......". Now to say what I wanted to say: Someone in the last
issue asked if anybody had geddy recorded in concert saying "Catch the
fish". Well, for starters, he says it on the ASOH vid. BUT, if you want
another viewpoint, he also siad it on all four of my Presto tour bootlegs.
It seems that those three words are a permanent part of the song now. Did
anyone out there go to the Oakland, ca Presto show(the first night)? weel,
that's the one I taped, and it is a beauty!!! It was an awesome show to say
the least! Ron Jeremy would be proud.
To change the subject(sort of), the fist song on the album "suck on this" by
Primus(it's a live album), starts off with their own version of YYZ, only
about ten or fifteen seconds before they break into their own song. It souds
really good(and raw indeed!). They really rip, especially the bass man , Les
Claypool, and the drummer. He just does some incredible double bass drum

Back to the subject of boots, does anybody want to trade any bootleg
recordings with me? I have some really good ones. I am especially looking
for a Hemispheres or A Farewell to Kings boot. Just email me and we will
talk about RUSH!!
********tracy lords, go back to what you do best*****************************
**************makin' quality movies******************************************
In our day, we didn't have a whole computer network of rush fans talking
about a subject that really interests them, And we LIKED IT!! We didn't have
an open forum where we could talk freely without beeing censored, and we
LIKED IT!!!By golly!

C'mon it's time to go.......
later-Jeff pants(buck)

-----------------"that's the law round here, said the king of sunset
*****hey Dan and Sean, What's up? Let's get some thongage today!************
-Obligitory Greg Neil qoute: "yeah!!! Rush!!! I love satan!"****************
Yet again, ANOTHER Marillion Quote: "It's getting late, for scribbling and
scratching on the paper. Somethings gonna give under this pressure and the
cracks are already beginning to show. It's getting late....."

-----Moving Pictures take thoity eight(clack)....Hey kid,
c'mon!.........ONE, TWO, THREE, FOUR, POWWW! and Thomas Sawyer makes another


From: telxon!teleng!dank@uunet.UU.NET (Dan Kelley)
Subject: Hello again...
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 15:29:21 EDT

Yes, it *HAS* been a long time.  In fact, I had so many unread issues
of TNMS, I had to delete all of April's and May's to make it bareable
to go thru.  Sorry - I hope I didn't miss much...

I am up to about mid-June (with June 18 to current to read yet) so please
bare with me if these issues are of past and dead by now.

Re: Women and Rush
	Just a small comment.  Seems each time I attend a show, I notice
	more ladies than before.  Seems Rush's "crowd" is different these
	days than once before (like when I saw them on _Signals_ in '83).
	My wife likes some of the newer Rush material (Presto, HYF, PoW,
	etc) and she is a pop-music fan (choke, gag, etc).  In fact, she
	went to 2 shows with me on the _Presto_ tour.  Interesting...

Re: Time to quit?
	Like Geddy said, they will keep making music as long as they get
	along with each other and are inspired by each other.  After 17
	years of being together (remember Neil didn't join till 1974),
	I believe the guys will still crank out the jams for quite some
	time to come.  Do expect a change in style over the years and time
	between albums (as we have already seen) for "other" interests
	(family, etc).

	Hellava job there Dan!  Keep up the good work!

Re: Time between _Presto_ and new album
	Think about it, it has been about the "right" amount of time
	between _Presto_ and this new album.  _Presto_ came out around
	Oct. 1989, correct?  Isn't Sept. 1991 about 2 years later (which
	follows	their pattern post-Signals).  No need to be "afraid" that
	there hasn't been enough time between albums :-).


P.S.  For you VH fans, the new one, _For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge_ is
      *EXCELLENT*!  I am not a big fan of Hagar but Eddie really shines
      on this.  Tour to begin in late-July/early-Aug.  They will be
      in the Cleve. area Aug 20th.
      I know, this is a non-Rush comment but I had to mention it (sorry
      bout that).


Dan Kelley          ||  ...!uunet!telxon!dank  ||
Telxon Corporation  ||  "I do know that you are not here to kill me...
3330 W. Market St.  ||        I figured that out on my own."
Akron, OH  44313    ||                        - John Connor in Terminator 2


From: David Arnold 
Subject: Bootlegs
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 91 15:44:21 EDT

Ahh, the touchy subject of bootlegs!  On the one hand, they can hurt the
artist(s) by diverting money normally spent on studio/legit efforts by
the band.  On the other hand, they provide a more spontaneous interpretation
of the music during different periods of a bands evolution.  Also, I like
live music better than studio versions in general, and there just isn't
that much live Rush available through normal channels.

I feel that if you already have all the band can offer on legit media (CD,
album, video, etc), and you're not making a profit from bootlegs, what's
the big deal?  Case in point:  The Grateful Dead.  "When we're done with
the music, you can have it."  Sums it up pretty well, doesn't it?  I had
the privilege of hanging with DeadHeads a few years back, and their un-
official networks are at least interesting, at most amazing.  My friend
had a list of several hundred (800 or so) G.D. boots, plus many by other
artisits.  On his printed trade list was the caviat: basically, "if I find
out you're selling anything I've given you, I will black-list you and will
pass your name around the Dead community and so will they."  I like that
ethic; the only money he would accept would be $2.50 to cover tape cost and
postage.  It's interesting how ethics can rule an illegal activity, huh?

In summary, support your favorite band.  Buy their stuff, and don't decide
not to buy something because you've got it on a boot.  I think if we all
play nice together, this can work.  :-)

Besides, I wouldn't mind if Rush had an address to send money to to defray
the 'lost revinue'.  Then again, on the other hand, where would the money
*really* go?

David Arnold       Keywords:    Rush, Jethro Tull, Crack the Sky, Squeeze, BOC,
                                 Neville Brothers, Peter Gabriel, Pink Floyd, 
Inet:       Talking Heads, King Crimson, Rolling Stones, 
UUCP: uunet!!davida  Police, ELP, Grass Roots, Hollies, Guess Who


To submit material to The National Midnight Star, send mail to:

For administrative matters (additions, deletions, changes, and 
questions), send mail to:    or

There is now anonymous ftp access available on Syrinx.  The network
address to ftp to is:       or

When you've connected, userid is "anonymous", password is .
Once you've successfully logged on, change directory (cd) to 'rush'.

There is also a mail server available (for those unable or unwilling to
ftp).  For more info, send email with the subject line of HELP to:

These requests are processed nightly.  Use a subject line of MESSAGE to
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The contents of The National Midnight Star are solely the opinions and 
comments of the individual authors, and do not necessarily reflect the 
opinions of the authors' management, or the mailing list management.

Copyright The Rush Fans Mailing List, 1991.

Editor, The National Midnight Star
(Rush Fans Mailing List)

End of The National Midnight Star Number 283

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