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Subject: 09/30/91 - The National Midnight Star #344  ** Part 1 of 2 **

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          The National Midnight Star, Number 344

                Monday, 30 September 1991
Today's Topics:
          Getting "Ghost of a Chance" played...
                    Ghost of a Whisper
                    `beeresy` and pop
                        Re: Dogs?
                 cynicism vs. skepticism
            Ghost Of A Chance/Ask Me To Dance
                   Barking on Dreamline
     Re:  09/19/91 - The National Midnight Star #343
                No I'm Not Wierd Al Either
               Engineering mystery solved?
               Alleged dogs in "Dreamline"
                     dogs and welding
     How much sound can you fit on one side of vinyl?
                   Tour Dates for Rush
                   ANSWERED QUESTIONS!
Re:  09/18/91 - The National Midnight Star #342  ** Special Edition **
                    Neil Peart's Book
             Dog's Barking, I don't think so!
                    RTB review article

From: Editor, The National Midnight Star 
Subject: Administrivia

Hi all,

    Yes, the NMS is back on the air after a somewhat extended hiatus.
It was a relaxing week for me, and I'm back, refreshed and ready to deal
with the hassles of life.  I think.

    First of all, since I got so many posts over the last week (over 50),
I decided to release today's NMS in two parts, issues 344 and 345.  If you
think you got duplicates, make sure you check the issue number!  On the other
hand, I *still* have over 100 items at the administrative address, so I'm
still plowing through them!

    Secondly, heads up, there are TOUR DATES in these two issues, the best
list submitted by our resident "lyricist", Supria.  The tour schedule has 
been released, and you heard it here, folks!  I wonder if Geddy will move
a couple of dates if Toronto goes all the way??

    Lastly, for those of you who sent mail asking where the NMS was for the
last week, *shame on you* for not reading the administrivia from issue 343! :-)



From: (Brian Young)
Subject: Getting "Ghost of a Chance" played...
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 91 16:58:29 EDT

   I just started receiving the National Midnight Star yesterday, and I don't
know if this is a good idea or not, but I read #311 (Peart's announcement of
_Roll the Bones_) and I got an idea.  (Scary!)  He said he believed "Ghost
of a Chance" would be a hit, but realized now it wouldn't be, saying they
must be too wierd. (Rush, wierd?  Never!)  Anyway, I believe that if we
can get the radios to play that song in particular, and effectively "force"
people to hear it and (eventually) like it, the song may become popular
and maybe pick up some more devotees for the boyz.  The problem with much
Rush material is you have to hear it over and over a few times to REALLY
crave it.  I've often called the local stations and asked them to play
Rush, but I'd usually say "Play anything", or "Play something from album x".
The former gets you Closer to the Heart/Tom Sawyer/Limelight/Spirit of Radio
usually.  I think the problem is I'm not concentrating constantly on one
particular song.
   So, here's the pitch:  Please, everyone, call up your station occasionally
and request "Ghost of a Chance".  Don't bug them constantly.  Get a few of
your friend who truly like Rush to do it too.  Just once a day or so will do,
just let your local station know there is demand for the song.  Who knows,
maybe we'll convert some loyal listeners of that station who hear it day
after day.  There are 900 of us here, so that's a start.  What do you guys


Date: Thu, 19 Sep 91 12:52:46 EDT
From: (Shawn Lee x4111)
Subject: Ghost of a Whisper

At the very end of "Ghost of a Chance", the split second before it fades out
and you can't hear anything at all, you can hear the words "Ghost of a
Chance" being whispered.  (Turning the volume up helps, but don't blow you
r ears out when 'Neurotica' comes on).  Is that Geddy or Rupert?

As for the barking dogs in 'Dreamline':  sounds like a simple MIDI sound
being triggered by a keyboard.  The barks I'm talking about come right
after "...far away from her hometown."  Any agreement?


Date:    Thu, 19 Sep 1991 19:34:57 EDT
Subject: `beeresy` and pop

First, I'd like to ask whomever wrote `beeresy` to mail me the lyrics, please-
I deleted that particular NMS. Secondly, I'd like to give a response to the
person(Sorry, can't remember who and don't have the exact quote-nuked that NMS
too)who made the remark that, in effect, said that it was more difficult to
create a well-constructed pop song than an art rock tune w/ "science fiction
lyrics." Art rock in itself is based on complex musical composition that
utilizes all of the various instruments(including the voice) to create an
`orchestra' that builds up a musical theme(s) which can put images in our mind
as clear as a brilliant sculpture. (Whew!) The difficulty of producing this in
a coherent and musically beautiful form is monumentous. For example, it took
Yes three months to even conceptualize Tales From Topographic Oceans, an epic
composition based on Phastric(sp?) scriptures that consisted of four parts,
each about twenty minutes in length. And the length was there because that's
how long it took to encompass all the musical motifs, not just so they could
say 'Hey, we got tunes that last twenty whole minutes!' I'm not here to slam
pop music, I'm just pointing out the sheer illogic of comparing the
difficulties of these two styles.
Thanx for 'da time!
              Nate - JMU
              "You may be a king or a street sweeper,
               but sooner or later, you dance with the Reaper."


Subject: Re: Dogs?
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 91 19:57:23 -0400


  I dunno, but I always thought that this sound everyone keeps
describing as a dog barking was something like a (large) wood
block with a serious reverb.  Sounds a bit like a dog, I guess, if
you've got a mid-sized dog, but I sorta doubt it.  Unless, of course,
it's the Dalmatian from Signals.  :-)



Subject: cynicism vs. skepticism
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 91 16:55:54 -0700

 > I, for one, never saw ``Show Don't Tell'' as a song about cynicism.
 > I've always seen it as a song about the most dependable way of getting
 > to the truth -- i.e. demanding evidence. It seems to me a cynic wouldn't
 > ask for evidence, he or she would _assume_ that they were being lied to.

I think the author of the article maybe meant "skepticism", not "cynicism"...
It's funny, I always think of my freshman English teacher who always told us
to "show don't tell" when we were describing something, i.e. relate it in a
descriptive way, rather than just "telling".  This is something I think Neil
is great at, so the title just seemed to fit naturally.

-- DougO


Date:         Thu, 19 Sep 91 20:18:04 EDT
From: Ian Nathan 
Subject:      Ghost Of A Chance/Ask Me To Dance

Please forgive me ahead of time for what you are about to read (or  maybe
not). I just couldn't resist...

Ask Me To Dance

Like a million little dance clubs
all the choices we made
all the bouncers we got past
all the songs that they played

So many different directions
Our separate paths might have turned
With all the feet we've stepped on
every person we've burned

Somehow we find each other
through all that masquerade
somehow we find each other
somehow we have stayed
In the same damn place

I don't believe in  DENSITY
or the mystery of blind date
I don't believe in forever
or the club as a mystical place

I don't believe in the lights or the sound
or the DJ watching from above
But I believe if you Ask Me To Dance
We can push and then shove
and make it last...

- - - - - - - - - -
maybe it's not that bad. makes no sense, but any suggestions/
constructive criticism/flames to, s'il vous plait.

Ian Nathan
The George Washington University
Washington, D.C.


Date:    Thu, 19 Sep 91 20:51 EDT
From: "Doug Morack (412)457-1292" 
Subject: Barking on Dreamline

    I listened to the "barks" on Dreamline quite a few times.   I'm convinced
that the so called "barks" are just intentional "pulses" created by Geddy's
keyboard.  It sounds nothing like a dog barking.  Just my $.02.


* ____            ___          *  Lonely things like nights, I find           *
* |   \  |    |  /   \  |    | *  End finer with a friend.                    *
* |___/  |    |  \___   |____| *        "Anagram (For Mongo)" - Rush _Presto_ *
* |  \   |    |      \  |    | *  Gonna kick some gluteus max.                *
* |   \   \__/   \___/  |    | *     "Roll the Bones" - Rush _Roll the Bones_ *
* BITNET   - DCM115@PSUVM         *  Let's go Pens!!!!                        *
* INTERNET - DCM115@PSUVM.PSU.EDU *  1990-91 Stanley Cup Champions!!!!        *


Date: Thu, 19 Sep 91 15:06:10 HST
From: deane@galileo.IFA.Hawaii.Edu (Rebel Without A Clue)
Subject: Re:  09/19/91 - The National Midnight Star #343

	Aloha, all.
	Sorry if I'm not as bubbly as puanani, but it's been a long day.
	(just kidding, 'nani!)

	Anyway, I heard the dogs on Dreamline right off, and thought it
was a neat device. While I truly hate line-by-line dissections of songs,
especially ones I like, the dogs kind of (dare I say the "s" word?)
symbolize "home" or "hometown," which she was trying to get away from.
I firmly believe they're not making any deep statement with the presence
of the dogs, but just had a funny notion while recording it, and I for
one think it shows the band's cool sense of humour.

	I will refrain from a long review of RTB, though I have to say
that I waited about 2 weeks before buying it, due to business at work. In
the future, I'm going to refrain from reading any options until I listen
once, since I noticed my impressions have been slightly clouded by what
others were saying long before I could even hear it on the radio (Puanani
was right on when she said Hawaii Radio bites the humu). It's my own fault,
of course; I should have just put off reading TNMS until I bought the album,
but that would have meant a *huge* mailbox sitting around in my account.

	The album will grow on me, though my favorite is still p/g. Nothing
compares with the mood/tempo/simplicity of afterimage, red sector A, etc.



Subject: Connecting
From: (Phil D. Croix)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 91 19:42:38 PDT

Sorry, let me clarify my feelings:
I meant I don't know if I like Rush being connected to Paula Abdul
*MUSICALLY*. But YES! GOD YES, how I would like to be connected to
her.....In some way.

Matt, feelin' kinda horny.


Subject: No I'm Not Wierd Al Either
From: (Vindicator)
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 91 23:02:33 PDT

Well here is the original version of THE BIG WHEEL.  But needless
to say, the boys did not like my choice of lyrics.  Guess they
don't like gameshows!

Remember, these lyrics do fit the music, you may have to try a
few times, but I guarentee they fit.  Without further ado!


Music by Lee and Lifeson
Lyrics by Dan Flanegan

They say it's only a game - not that I would change my mind
On T.V. - ya see it's not a waste of time
And if I win - i'll be rich, and it's no crime
The way that big wheel spins

Well I arrived in LA, Pat was there to shake my hand
Thought I'd see, if I could be Vanna's man
Taking no chances, I wait with rose in hand
Her rejection was bad!

Don't want to wait to solve it
Or some insight that will help me win
I can't believe they picked these contestants
The way that big wheel spins

Well I had only a few, them darn spaces to fill
My mind goes blank, I think I'm getting ill
So I thought I could solve it, but those chances are all in the wheel

Well I still had a chance, spin without a second glance
Going for broke, time for a final chance
Way beyond hope, I wanna win that trip to France
It's such a circumstance

Wheel spins round, landing on a thousand bucks
Keeping my assets, I'll have a better chance
When the final guessing begins

Wheel slows down, landing on the bankrupt spot
Game redirected, wheel stops unexpected
Sometimes the fat lady wins
The way that damn wheel spins!


Well, I hope you all had a good laugh with that one also.  I would be
nice to put these all together in one collection.  I think I am going to
work on another one.  If anyone has any good subjects for the other
songs, please let me know, especially if you are not planning to write
one yourself.

DREAMLINE   #1   Billboard Rock Tracks
ROLL THE BONES   #3   Billboard Album Chart

 'get out there and rock!'



Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 09:20:05 EDT
From: (Andrew Boyko)
Subject: Engineering mystery solved?

Last NMS, Greg Jaeger noticed:

>And there is a puzzler:
>>"So with _Presto_, the only way we could keep the running order the way
>>we wanted was to put more material on side one than on side two.
>>This means the sound level on the first side is lower that on the second."
>Could one of our resident engineers please explain this one?
>I have trouble seeing how the amount of material on the sides
>of a recording could affect their relative sound level. It
>almost sounds like, gee, each side can only have so much _sound_
>and we've got to distribute amongst _all these songs_! WHA?!

I'm not an engineer yet (give me a few years) but I think I know the
answer.  It only applies to records (if my hypothesis is correct.)
Seems to me that when more music is packed on a side of a record, the
grooves have to be closer together.  The volume level of the recorded
sound is translated by the record needle from how wide the grooves are
(not literally how wide they are, but the amplitude of the wave.)  So
when they're closer, the amplitude has to be less because otherwise the
grooves would run into each other.  I'm assuming side one of Presto was
30 min. or so, which is an awful lot for a record.  I think the optimum
length for a record side is something like 17 minutes, for best sound

This is all guessing, but it sounds plausible to me.  So, yes, basically,
each side really _CAN_ only have so much sound, and it does have to be
distributed amongst all the songs.  I think.

Andrew Boyko        | say in a really silly nasal voice : "I am memory |  and awareness / but I have no shape or form..."


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1991 09:41 MST
From: Roo-Dog Rip 
Subject: Alleged dogs in "Dreamline"

I don't know what they are, but the background sounds in "Dreamline" that some
of us are hearing sound quite un-dog-like to me. They sound more like a sound
that was laid down backwards(though I can't guess what it might be).

Someone asked about recording levels on vinyl records and how that could be
affected by the length of an album side. It's really quite simple. The
amplitude(size) of the sqiggles of the groove determines the level of sound
produced by the needle, and the way you control what sound level you hear is
the volume knob. If the volume level from the needle is lower, you have to
compensate. Unfortunately this causes another problem. There is an inherent
level of noise associated with dragging a needle along the vinyl. But this
noise is constant for a given turntable/record combination and if you lower the
amplitude of the squiggles of the groove you increase the level of noise you
hear at a given volume setting on your stereo, so packing songs in on a record
is a bad idea if you care about sound quality, which is why people invented
CDs, but then you have only a certain amount of information you can store,
which for convenience corresponds to the length of a CD, hence the missing
songs on ESL and ATWAS.

Roo-Dog Rip
\Roo-Dog Rip is:                  <> "O! What a rogue and peasant slave am I!"/
\Derrell Durrett                  <>                 --- _Hamlet_ II. ii, 584 /
\D_DURRETT@COLOPHYS.BITNET        <>                                          /
\D_DURRETT%KAOS@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU <>   High Energy Physics: The New Religion! /
\Voice:(303)492-4821              <>                Get Some Today!           /
\Fax:(303)492-5119|Msg:492-1228   <>                                          /
\ High Energy Physics Group | University of Colorado | Boulder, Colorado, USA /


From: (Amy Moseley)
Subject: Diane
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 10:51:48 CDT

To Diane, who recently enrolled in this list--I have the list of mailing
lists you asked for...
Amy J. Moseley
Motorola Computer Group
(512) 329-7117					:) or


Date:    Fri, 20 Sep 1991 12:44:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: RH2@JAGUAR.UCS.UOFS.EDU (Rebel, Runner, Restless Young Romantic)
Subject: dogs and welding

        in response to the recent thread of inquiry about the barking in
	it sounds to me (so therefore it could be incorrect)  exactly like
	the few measures of 'owner of a lonely heart' right before trevor's
	solo...its the part in the video where the welding occurs.
	these sound are produced by the electronic drums, so perhaps if indeed
	the sounds are the same, neil is this hypothetical dog.



Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 13:46:17 BST
From: (Adrian N Ogden)
Subject: How much sound can you fit on one side of vinyl? (Gregg Jaeger) writes:

>And there is a puzzler:
>>"So with _Presto_, the only way we could keep the running order the way
>>we wanted was to put more material on side one than on side two.
>>This means the sound level on the first side is lower that on the second."

>Could one of our resident engineers please explain this one?

>I have trouble seeing how the amount of material on the sides
>of a recording could affect their relative sound level. It
>almost sounds like, gee, each side can only have so much _sound_
>and we've got to distribute amongst _all these songs_! WHA?!

Well, although I'm not an engineer I seem to recall that it works
something like this...

The groove on a record is simply an etched pattern which matches
the waveform of the sound it is recording, and the depth of the
groove determines the volume. This automatically limits the playing
time of an album, by a simple "maximum groove density". Right?

Well, actually no. 'Cos if the only degree of freedom you have is
depth, you can only control one channel. Which was fine until some
wiz-kid invented stereo! With two channels you need a second degree
of freedom so you can control them both. You need to use the width!

So they invented a system with a V-shaped groove where the right
hand side controls one channel, and the left hand side the other.

__________   ||   __________  surface
          \ /  \ /
           \\  //
          L \\// R

So, to produce a louder sound on the left channel, the left hand
side of the groove must give way, so the needle moves left, and
(in order to preserve that smooth V shape) it simultaneously moves
deeper down.

______     ||     __________  surface
      \    ||    /
       \   ||   /
        \ /  \ /
 <---    \\  //

And the same procedure applies on the other side for the volume of
the right channel. If both sides get louder simultaneously, then both
sides of the groove widen out and the needle descends straight down.

______  <--  ||  -->  ______  surface
      \      ||      /
       \     ||     /
        \    ||    /
         \   ||   /
          \ /  \ /
           \\  //


So, while depth of the grooves is the only factor for mono records,
stereo affects the width as well. So the louder you mix the wider
your grooves need to be, and thus the fewer grooves can fit on one
side of the record.

I hope that was clear enough.

<< Adrian Ogden   _ . _ _   _ . _ _   _ _ . . >>


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 16:23:48 -0500
From: Mark Shaw 
Subject: Tour Dates for Rush

I just read in the local paper that tickets go on sale tomorrow -
that is Saturday, Sept. 21 for a concert in Normal, Illinois (at
the Redbird Arena on November 9.  So, there's a confirmed date.

Someone also asked about the Gangsters of Boats Trilogy, and I
heard Geddy respond to a question about it on the CD Launch
a few weeks ago by saying, "[more info will be available] as
soon as we write them!"  So, it sounds like it was just a joke
to link part 4 and trilogy, IMHO.



Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 16:30:33 -0500
From: (James Moseley)

First of all, let me congratulate the author of "I HATE MY LIFE" or "YOU BET
YOUR WIFE".  I thought that was pretty good myself!

Now on to the answers\suggestions:

To the person searching for the tabs or chords to "Broon's Bane" and "The 
Trees":  You can find these in RUSH COMPLETE.  It's a big paperback of the
music from RUSH to SIGNALS.  It was published in 1983 by CORE MUSIC PUBLISHING.

If there's anybody who really wants to find out what Jack Secret looks like,
turn to page 94 of VISIONS.  He's the one yawning and petting the dog.  And
as my sister said, Tony's wearing sunglasses alright.  BTW VISIONS is a
biography of RUSH written by the B-Man.  Info on VISIONS can be obtained
in the FAQL.  I think?

Oh, about the dogs on "Dreamline",  that sounds like a wood block sampled to a
keyboard or computer with its parameters changed.  Listen to it again.

James Moseley


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 17:49:26 EDT
From: (Chris J Katopis)
Subject: Re:  09/18/91 - The National Midnight Star #342  ** Special Edition **



Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 20:07:34 -0400
From: supriya (Lyricist)
Subject: Neil Peart's Book

I have heard rumors that Neil Peart is writing a book which will be
available shortly in stores...can anyone confirm or deny this??


DD--take care..


Subject: Dog's Barking, I don't think so!
From: (Vindicator)
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 91 16:11:25 PDT

        Well just a short comment on the barking that everyone say that
they hear in Dreamline.  First of all the first time I heard it, I heard
it on a tape from off of the radio that sounded much clearer than the CD.

        To me it sounded like and still sounds like a submarine's sonar
blip that is sent out.  If anyone has seen The Hunt for Red October, I'm
sure you know what I mean.  I always pictured Neil triggering it.  I
listened to it again, and I guess if you stretch it, it could be a dog. I
dunno why it would be?  Oh well still sounds like sonar to me.  Anyone
else agree?

        I have the transcriptions to both The Trees and Broons Bane, they
are in a Rush music book, I don't have it right here, but if you send me
some mail I will get the name of it and the publisher for you.  My
brother, Sean, has already learned every song in the damn book.

        Nuff' Sed!

"We are the plumbers, that fix, your sinks!"   -2112-  Signals Tour


Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1991 21:31:21 -0500
From: (Tyler Weaver)
Subject: RTB review article

Roll the Bones review article
  copied w/o permission from Music Express magazine, Sept. 91

  "There's a scary phenomenon about Rush.  With every album they seem to
become more sophisticated, more philosophical and more challenging as
artistic expressionists.  Often described as a 'thinking man's heavy metal
group,' Rush have the dual capability of laying down thought-provoking
lyrical theses in sync with some of the most stirring sounds ever to emote
from a stereo speaker.  It's even more amazing when you consider this entire
structure is designed by three remarkable individuals in the form of
percussion/lyricist Neil Peart, vocalist/bassist/keyboardist Geddy Lee and
guitarist extraordinaire Alex Lifeson.  With _Roll the Bones_, the Toronto
trio delves into the sociological implications of taking a gamble in life,
lyrically examining the ways humanity takes advantage of (or limits) its
opportunities.  Most of the tracks project a positive message, with the title
track, "Bravado," "Dreamline" and "Neurotica" taking an encouraging stance.
In a line from "Bravado" (which Peart lifted from John Barth's _The Tidewater
Tales_), Lee sings:"Though everything is lost, we will pay the price but we
will not count the cost."  But as "You Bet Your Life,""Ghost of a Chance"
and "The Big Game"[sic] conclude, life is a game of chance and the odds of
pushing your luck in an evil way or moving forward in a positive way usually
even out in the end.  Musically, the trio are razor sharp, with the arrangements
both stark and biting.  Co-producer Rupert Hine, often accused of overkill,
keeps everything tightly in focus, using keyboards to accentuate the production
rather than clutter up the tracks.  One real treat is the instrumental "Where's
My Thing?" in which Peart, Lifeson and Lee gallop through a stinging shuffle
rock arrangement -- performed with all the technical expertise of a veteran
group, yet also with the enthusiastic abandonment of a garage band laying
down their first demos.  They're musicians' musicians with a consistency
that's almost awesome to comprehend.  Chalk up _Roll the Bones_ as another
Rush album -- the name itself is rock's _Good Housekeeping_ seal of approval."

  written by Keith Sharp     rating ****1/2 (out of 5)

 (...a music critic who LIKES RUSH!? imagine that...)

 Keep 'em rollin'


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Copyright The Rush Fans Mailing List, 1991.

Editor, The National Midnight Star
(Rush Fans Mailing List)

End of The National Midnight Star Number 344

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