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Subject: 12/12/91 - The National Midnight Star #402

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          The National Midnight Star, Number 402

                Thursday, 12 December 1991
Today's Topics:
                        DAT taping
                     For John Turner
                      RUSH Bootlegs
                      Rockline in NY
              Worcester, MA concert SPOILER
                    Rush As Musicians
                  another useless tidbit
              NYC 12/6 Comments (SPOILERS?)
                       Toys onstage
                 Not Rush related BUT...
                       Working Man
                  Re: toys in the show?
                 Thumbs up to John Turner
                     AVAIL.BOOTS LIST
        Tickets for Seattle go on sale SAT 12-14!
                 Re: address of the boyz
                  Rush and hearing loss
                      Rush and Rand
                 glow sticks and Ayn Rand

Date:    Wed, 11 Dec 1991 15:40:20 -0800 (PST)

	Any Yes fans out there.  Would like to know of the existence of a
Yes mailing list like the Rush one.


Date:     Wed, 11 Dec 91 19:23 EDT
Subject:  DAT taping

Want to get alot of mail from interesting people ?  Then just post
to the NMS that you will be taping a Rush show !  I got alot of mail
from folks asking for analog dubs of the show.

Unfortunately, I had some security problems.  I had great taping seats
(22nd row floor, near the center) but, unfortunately, they were right
next to the security station.  Imagine my paranoia, with all the
stuff I had (Nak 700 capsules, power supply, cabling, DAT - would
have been a great tape !) and all the security dudes right there,
with noone between me and them.  Well, they did catch on, and I had
to check my stuff in the security desk.  This happened just after
the warm-up band, so I did not miss any of an excellent show.
(And it was great  !  My favority of my 10 Rush shows.  The encore
just blew me away !!!).

After I got yelled at by two Centrum security dudes, I got yelled
at by two Rush dudes (Rush management folks with laminates all over
them).  I explained 'I just love Rush'.  They said 'Then why are
you stealing money from them ?'.  I said 'Stealing money !  I own every
album they put out !  They're not losing any money from me.'
After being told that they were going to 'press charges' (yeah, right)
and that I was 'out of here!' I finally did convince them that I had
well placed intentions, and they let me return to my seat.  Whew !

Anyway, to make a long story short (too late!  :-)  I don't have any
DATs to offer anyone.  So ...

DAT taper seeks same to obtain Rush tapes from this tour.  Have plenty
of stuff to trade (but no Rush).  Thanks !

take care,


| Eric J. Simon       Harvard Univerity     HU GSAS BMCDB  (BMB) G3 |


Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1991 20:07:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Matthew Joseph Desantis 
Subject: For John Turner

	I cannot agree with you more. I like there is absolutely no reason to
worship these musicians. They are humans. Their computer paraphernalia
may make them sound infallible, but the are.... humans. Sometimes boards
like this get too carried away. I love rush, and much of what they do.
People on this board wonder why Rolling Stone pans rush.... they see
them as humans. I like rush, but I can see why the average listener or
non musician may get quite irritated with the rush sound.
	Phil Collins plays a totally different style of drums than Neil. Neil
is a technican. Phil is more of a charismatic entertainer. There is no
way to make a comparison about drumming ability. I bet there are things
that Phil does at home that would make Neil shit, but his repertoire
does not call for technical drumming. Neil has been doing the same licks
for years. He's great, don't get me wrong, but he's a human... he has
only a certain capacity for drumming....
	I have played keyboards for over ten years, and I think as a musician I
appreciate rush. I think many people (Rolling Stone) regard rush as an
adolescent band. The music of rush has inspired me, but it's not for
all...I think we must all come down from our rush clouds and start to
view rock with an open mind.

	Matt DeSantis


Date:     Wed, 11 Dec 91 20:35 EST
Subject:  RUSH Bootlegs

I haven't seen alot of talk about various bootlegs of Rush that exist.
Down here in Bloomington, In. home of Indiana University we are home
to several independent record stores. One of these stores happens to
carry several imports (most being bootlegs). All are used of course.
PRESSURE. Has anyone else heard of these? The quality of them (all are on
cd) is not bad (a little audience heavy, but otherwise sound quality, more
or less, of ESL. My girlfriend is buying me LIVE UNDER PRESSURE for that
Winter Holiday. All 3 have the same sound quality and are definitely worth
getting. Imports of anything at this store go for $29.95 for a single disc
and $49.95 for a double disc. All 3 Rush cd's are single discs. Does any one
else have any of these, or any others I have not heard of? I would be
interested in obtaining copies of other bootlegs or buying them, if I can
afford them, as I am a starving college student. Any info would be breatly
[oops...] greatly appreciated.
Many thanx.


Date: Wed, 11 Dec 1991 20:37:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Ceri Alun Morgan 
Subject: Rockline in NY

Sorry, this is not a Rush post but I figured someone would know the
answer due to Rush's recent appearance. Can someone please tell me on
which radio station rockline is played in the New York City area.

thanks a lot,


From: martino@wpi.WPI.EDU (Robert Paul Martino Jr)
Subject: Worcester, MA concert SPOILER
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 21:00:55 EST

Well, last night was the Worcester MA concert and it was awesome.
All the band members IMO looked like they were having a good time, Geddy and
Alex were going all over the stage (switching sides, along the sides towards
the back, everywhere but on the ramp behind Neil- Alex lost his footing for a
second and almost fell over when stepping off the lower part of the ramp to
get to the far left side of the stage!)  Geddy seemed pretty talkative to
the crowd, saying it was good to be back in this part of the country, asking
how everyone was doing, etc.  My seats weren't that great(balcony right
above the left side of the stage) but I could see the videoscreen and
everything. The opening cartoon with the cartoon Rush members from the ASOH
album cover was funny (the three of them falling from the sky splatting on
the stage) Is this the regular video for Force Ten or is it just for concerts?
Sorry, I'd never seen any Rush videos until last night, so it might be a
dumb question.  The playlist was same as recent concerts including GOAC.
Neil got up and did one of those windmill arm motions like hockey players
do when they score at one point in the show.  Lights and lasers were incredible
and the speakers at the back of the arena were neat (esp. the end of Where's
my Thing when the last note and the lights swept from the stage to the back of
the arena and everyone's head turned to follow the light/sound as if someone
on stage hit a baseball across the Centrum).  The lights during the Rhythm
Method were hypnotizing.  Let's see can't think of anything else to add...

Well that's enough rambling for now.  Hope the boyz come around again
before I graduate from WPI because the Centrum's only a 15 min. walk from

Rob Martino


Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 21:26:26 EST
Subject: Rush As Musicians

I must agree with whoever stated that the members of Rush are great, but
not the greatest at playing their respective instruments.  I am a die-hard
Rush fan, but I can admit that they haven't always performed or written
songs which are truly great.  Take "Caress Of Steel" as an example.  Although
Alex's gutiar licks and solos were quite impressive, Neil's drum parts and
some of Geddy's bass lines were lack-luster.  As far as I'm concerned, COS
was a step backward for the band after a great album such as Fly By Night.
Since I've become a muscian (drummer), I've found a much greater respect
and understanding for what is happening in Rush, but I've also learned how
to be an educated listener.  Neil Peart in my opinion is the greatest
rock drummer who ever lived, but Bill Bruford and Ginger Baker (Cream) are
right there with him.  There are several drummers who are better than Peart,
including Dave Weckl, Steve Gadd, Tony Williams, and Joe Morello.  Geddy
Lee is also one of the best rock bassists, along with Chris Squire, but
(Primus) are better.  As for guitarist, there are quite a few guitarists
who are better than Lifeson.  I don't mean to bash Rush in any way;
collectively, they are the greatest band in history (yes, even greater than
the Beetles or Rolling Stones).  I just had to state my case and I hope
that no one is offended.  I wouldn't be involved with this mailing list if
it weren't for my being a totally dedicated Rush fan.  Roll the Bones!


Subject: another useless tidbit
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 21:49:26 EST

The New York Times (12/11/91, sec.C) printed a review of the 6 Dec.
show at Madison Square Garden.  It isn't particularly negative or
positive; I don't feel like typing it all in, but to paraphrase, Karen
Schoemer was generally respectful of the boyz' musical abilities, but
said she was overwhelmed by the layers of samples and multimedia, so
that the band members were "practically invisible."  She especially
pointed this out in "Roll the Bones" itself.

[personal opinion starts] I agree with her to some extent -- every
Rush show I find myself hoping they'll suddenly stop, tell their
sampleboy (Jack Secret, I presume?) to take a night off, and just jam,
but I know they never will.  So I enjoy the concert THEY give, instead
of the one I'd like to see.  And largely my wish for a Rush show that
is unfettered by computers, and samplers, and a pre-determined setlist
exists because I've seen them a few times already, so I'm used to them
as they perform now.  We all want each night to be something special,
something done "just for us," don't we?

Ms. Schoemer also comments that the "thousands of teen-agers in the
audience, most of them male, screamed every lyric, punched their fists
in the air.  They played air guitar, air keyboards and air drums..."
Funny, I was at the show she reviewed and I thought the audience was
relatively low-key!  She must've been standing behind me... :-)

She goes on to say that "... this band has been a kind of rite of
passage.  With lyrics about such grand philosophic issues as free
will, destiny and apocalypse, Rush creates music that is bigger than
life, dazzling in its technological feats.  The teen-age mind is
chaos; Rush is perfect order.  It's like a sonic video game."  I
believe she's getting a little carried away with her metaphors.  The
audience at most hard rock concerts is largely made up of teen-age
males, for one thing.  Second, rock music in general is a "rite of
passage," an expression of the rebellious, and Rush only distinguishes
itself in ability and in lyrical content.  But they're "just" a rock
band, they've said so themselves.  She may not be wrong in what Rush
represents, but I don't go to a concert because of "big themes," I go
to sing myself hoarse and applaud three great players.

						Derek L.
       derek@albnyvms.bitnet       <>
====}=---------------`  Fencers love to touch  '-----------------={====
               "Cinderella man... hang on to your plans..."


Date:     Wed, 11 Dec 91 21:52 EST
Subject:  NYC 12/6 Comments (SPOILERS?)

      I was at MSG on 12/6 and I thought I'd at my $0.02. Overall, what can I
say, it was a great show. I had seats on the floor, directly in front of the
mixing board, so they were pretty good. I really have to say, as far I was
concerned, the boyz played great, but didn't necessarily sound great. For some
reason (was it me?) it sounded like the mix was off almost all night. Alex was
really getting lost in the background at times. During a couple of songs, I
totally missed his entry on the solos. When he was on, though, he was awesome.
Geddy was incredible all night and well Neil... the solo was incredible.
      To whoevere said that Ged did the rap live, I don't think so. It was
pretty obvious that he walked over the the synth setup to kick the sequence
in. Which reminds me... Was anyone else taken by how loud and empty some of
the sound sample were? I mean, during Force Ten, the "rising, falling at Force
Ten" part was louder that Ged singing the straight lines, and it sounded
awkward. The same with Aimee Mann's "Time Stand Still" sample... way too loud.
I think they corrected a bit later. "Show Don't Tell" sounded better, but
(as has been said) Geddy triggered the sample a bit early at one point.
      I really have to agree with a previous poster about what was probably the
biggest disappointment at the show. The crowd quality was pretty poor. I mean
I saw so many people where just standing stonewall while the boyz were really
rockin'. I didn't get it. With the exception of the radio staples (Spirit of
Radio, Sawyer, Limelight, etc), the response by the bulk of the people was
lukewarm at best. But I didn't let it get me down. I had an incredible time!
Just wished they had played a bit longer...
      As to Rush coming through NYC again, I have to agree that it will be the
Meadowlands in March and not Nassau Colliseum. The tour shirts mention East
Rutherford (Meadowlands) and don't mention Uniondale (Nassau). Well, I hope
the crowd is more into the show then. I'll see ya there!

|George Papadopoulos|
|    |
|  AS624625@LIUVAX  |


Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 23:14:33 EST
From: "David S. Schmidt" 
Subject: Toys onstage

Yes, there definately is a dancingkeleton on the top of Alex's amps,
it is rather small, but it seems to be going haywire throughout the
concert!  I wonder if it moves in response to sound, or if it is battery

Has anyone else noticed how the various sequences and samples are triggered
by the boyz?  It helps to have binoculars to see exactly what they are
doing onstage.


Subject: Not Rush related BUT...
From: (Sean Flanegan)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 91 15:49:16 PST

        I must say that Yes are definately my second favorite band next
to Rush, and Tony Banks does not hold a candle to Rick Wakeman(one of the
most talent musicians I have ever witnessed perform) I also really don't
think Genesis are even as good Yes let alone Rush. Here are my reasons.

   I think that old Genesis is much better than the new stuff( your no
son of mine sounds really cornball to me)

Phil Collins should be behind the drumkit

New Genesis sounds like a Phil Collins solo album.

On the arguement between Geddy and Tony Banks  Ged isn't a Keyboardist to
the extent that Tony Banks or Rick Wakeman are. He is a BASS PLAYER and

Tony Banks can't do those things.

PS    I am not trying to cut down Genesis because they are at least one
the only bands around today who have SOME originality!!!
I am just eager to tell my ideas on a comparison between Rush and
Genesis. Just for the record     here are my favorite bands

2. YES(ABWH or any incarnation)
3. LED ZEPPELIN (Just Rock legends)

I also like Queensryche, The Who, Primus Eric Johnson, Jeff Beck, Steve
Vai, Joe Satriani, Cream ( thsecond best rock trio ever)



Date: Thu, 12 Dec 91 01:38:22 -0600
From: (George Walker)
Subject: Working Man


anyone notice the 'double-track' effect on 'Working Man', from _RUSH_?

best i can tell, it sounds like geddy singing the same part *twice* (ie,
once for the left-side track, and again for the right-side track, then
combining the two into one {listening to the song on a cassette, BTW}), or
maybe geddy singing the back-up vocals as well as main vocal.

any thoughts/ideas/info?




From: (Dennis Rivard)
Subject: Re: toys in the show?
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 91 8:51:34 EST

> 	I was at the Worcester show - and it was amazing!!  It was

The last (and first time) I saw Rush was for the HYF tour, and this
show blew HYF away!

> 	I have a strange question to brother and I were wondering
> about something.   Can someone who was sitting either near the front or on
> the left side tell me what that was on top of the amp?  From where we were
> flower things (those toys that move and seem to dance when there's music or
> noise near 'em)...finally we guessed it was a dancing skeleton.  Is that

I was sitting stage left (BEHIND the screen :-( ) and I saw what you
were talking about (it was on stage right, but I was positioned in
such a way as to see it).... it appeared to me, to be a dancing
skeleton that was kind of sitting down... it definately was not
standing though...


From: Tero Valkonen 
Subject: Thumbs up to John Turner
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 91 17:38:41 EET

I was very positively surprised about John Turner's posting in today's
NMS. As you remember, he was the guy who had gotten mad about the Rush-
As you probably remember, I personally hate Roll the bones and don't
regard Presto as a very good album either. I have also made this very
clear in my postings to the NMS. Also, I posted something very similar
to John's posting a few months ago. Blaming the Rush-woshipers and such.
I don't know whether you remember that posting, but since John predicted
that he will be getting a lot of flames for that posting I decided to tell
you what kind of email replies I got to my "Thumbs down to Rush-worship"
(Actually my posting was titled "To Gregg Jaeger and other fanatics")
TWO persons flamed me. A LOT of people told me that I had done a good job
when slandering the fanatical worshippers. And I think John Turner did
a very good job on his article as well.
I got very sad and upset about the flame-war that is going on in alt.
rock-n-roll the very moment and I actually tried to calm people down
in one of my postings. One thing that I find very annoying is that my
fellow Rush-fans seem to LOVE that kind of flaming, since they never
stop doing it regardless of how much you beg them to stop. If a person
doesn't like Rush and thinks they suck, leave it at that. I consider
U2 to be absolute garbage but I have nothing against a person who thinks
they're great - even if he told me that The Edge is the guitar-god and
Alex Lifeson sucks.

Ain't it funny how it is: Rush is the only band (Ok, the only one I've
seen) whose fans are generally so stupid and naive and fanatical and
and and...that they need to flame anyone who disagrees with them. Or
is it just that the fanatics make so much noise that they seem to
be the majority?

[ Personally I think it's the latter, but it may be wishful thinking... :-)
                                                                  :rush-mgr ]


Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1991 08:45 MDT

        Whoooooooaaaaah! I must have missed this!
        Can anybody tell me how to get access to
        said list? I can't find it at the FTP...

                                        The Thom

Thomas Earl Bowers                       ORQ: ``Shit. *Stupid* computer!''
Utah State University                                --K. Lerxst


Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1991 08:54:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Lundquist 
Subject: Tickets for Seattle go on sale SAT 12-14!

The title says it all...

Eric Lundquist
University Of Washington, Seattle


Date: Thu, 12 Dec 91 11:41:21 -0600
From: Brian E. Saunders 
Subject: Re: address of the boyz

What do you plan to do?  Drop by their house and say hello?  I truly
doubt that anyone outside Rush's management has them (maybe even they
don't).  This is getting into the realm of being dangerously fanatic;
I sure hope you don't plan to pull a John Lennon job on Neil Peart.

Brian E. Saunders


Date:     Thu, 12 Dec 91 12:57 EDT
Subject:  Rush and hearing loss

Howdy.  I am a veteran concert goer who almost never has problems
with volume at the show.

However, my ears are still ringing from the Rush show two days ago.
I was in the 22nd row on the floor, so I was pretty close to the stacks.
Usually the ringing will go away after just that one night, but for this
show it still persists.

My point is this:  consider bringing earplugs with you to the show
(or cotton or tissue or something).  Offer this advise to the people
you are going with, especially if they are Rush/concert novices.
It might help them enjoy the concert more.

Rush is loud !  (and that's the way I like it, don't me wrong-I just
wish I had been more cautious).

take care,


| Eric J. Simon       Harvard Univerity     HU GSAS BMCDB  (BMB) G3 |


Date: Thu, 12 Dec 1991 14:07 EST
From:, Matthew S 
Subject: Rush and Rand

To Greg and those who don't see any Rand influence in late Rush,
	How can a philosophy that affects your life completely not always
influence some of your writing? I can see lots of Rand influence after 2112,
beginning with Hemispheres.
	Rational Objectivism is the philosophy of selfishness, fighting
against the mass popuplar culture and doing what you want. Above all, you
must use reason to govern your passions and not be irrationally selfish.
	Hemispheres is all about the battle in peoples' mind between passion
and reason and how either one in excess can be harmful (a full explanation
by Neil is in _Visions_). Freewill expresses another Rand concept of
atheism, complete freewill and your obligation to decide for yourself.
Limelight, Witch Hunt, and Vital Signs all express basically the evils of
mass popular culture, the mob, and mass produced super technology. Subdivisions
is all about childhood battles for independence against an all absorbing
society, as is Kid Gloves. The Body Electric is another example of super
technology trying to have freewill. Neil expresses a belief that emotion
must be balanced with rationality in Open Secrets when he says " I find
no ablsolution in my rational point of view. Maybe somethings are instinctive,
but there is one thing you can do." Show Don't Tell says that we must all
make our own decisions on what to believe and not take anything on pure faith
(notice, "_I_ will be the judge"). Superconductor is an example of people
who just perform to please the crowd and soak up second-hand self esteem.
Most of RTB talks about not believing in fate or supreme being but in taking
our chances and living life to the fullest. Neil writes in the title track,
"Good work is the key to good fortune." which is Rand almost word for word.
There are more examples but I don't want to ramble too much.

OQ-"He [Geddy] looks like my grandfather!"-one of my friends upon seeing
the pictures of Dirk in _Guitar_
					-Matt the Bassist


From: stedmant@LONEX.RL.AF.MIL (Terrance A. Stedman)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 91 15:23:45 EST
Subject: glow sticks and Ayn Rand

> Something cool:

>Right at the begining of the Rhythm Method, someone chucked one of
>those chemical glow stick thingies on stage, and it bounced off of
>Alex's synth and hit one of Neils cymbals, making it sound.  It was
>really cool because it sounded like it should have been there, but
>Neil was not amused.  (like I said, he didn't seem to be having much

        I'm a drummer and I hate it when people handle my equipment, be
it stands, toms, or especially cymbals which get dirty rather easily.
Basically, I'm real protective of my kit.  So I can definitely understand
why Neil was "not amused" when that glow stick struck his cymbal.  It
equally well could have struck and possibly injured him!!  Besides that,
it probably broke his concentration as well.
        On a lighter note, people who want to find out more about Ayn
Rand should take the time to read "Anthem".  The book is really short so
it doesn't take long to read.  You will also find that the story parallels
side one of 2112 almost exactly which explains why Neil gave credit to
her on the album.


    Terry Stedman    Internet:
    I ) I I <~ I_I   "It is my will which chooses, and the choice of my will
    I \ I_I _> I I   is the only edict I must respect." - Rand from _Anthem_


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Copyright The Rush Fans Mailing List, 1991.

Editor, The National Midnight Star
(Rush Fans Mailing List)

End of The National Midnight Star Number 402

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