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Subject: 11/17/92 - The National Midnight Star #560
Status: R

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List posting/followup:
Administrative matters:

(Administrative postings to the posting address will be ignored!)


          The National Midnight Star, Number 560

                Tuesday, 17 November 1992
Today's Topics:
                  Sorry, I missed CD 101
     NEW POLL!!!!!!  (hey, we haven't had one lately)
                       Fruity Bones
              Neil at a gay bar.  So *what*?
                      Gay bar rumour
                    Neils Impetus....
      Re: 11/12/92 - The National Midnight Star #557
                 Re: peart at a gay bar?
      Re: 11/16/92 - The National Midnight Star #559
                        Line Trape
            Neil Peart in a gay bar, Tolerance
             Xanadu and other misc. comments
                  ...and misc. comments
                     auwe noho'ie!!!
                      rush tourbooks
A little pissed about these Peart stories... & Dream Theatre
                   Opener for next tour
              Wanted; tape TWO of Chronicles
            Re: good seats / subliminal covers
 Pieces of Eight, The Rhythm Method, and Natural Science
          Shattered illusions of integrity (NOT)
                    TMNS CD Update #3
                  Fantastic Neil Stories
                       NMS T-Shirts
      Re: 11/16/92 - The National Midnight Star #559
               Xanadu (please post at end)
                     Neil & gay bars
                  Rush influenced bands
         I've had enough, and enough is too much!

From: rush-mgr
Date: Tues, 17 Nov 1992
Subject: Administrivia

Let's try to keep the "Neil gay?" subject to a minimum here on the list. I
know that many people feel they have to say something, but many people 
*already* have said something in this digest. Try keeping this to e-mail 
(it's hard, I know) with the original poster, and do NOT flame this person 
on the digest.

- rush-mgr


From: (Mike Monahan)
Subject: Sorry, I missed CD 101
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 15:52:30 EST

	(Sorry if this seems late, but I'm a little behind.)

	Please forgive me for my misinformation about the benefits
(or lack thereof) of Ultradiscs.  I'm just a poor Philosophy major who made
the mistake of believing what he read.  It won't happen again.  Thank you for
setting me straight.  All I do know is that my Ultradisc does sound superior.
	By the way, the boot CD compilation is a great idea.  Chalk up another


	Michael Monahan


From: J.C. Rush 
Subject: NEW POLL!!!!!!  (hey, we haven't had one lately)
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 16:02:44 CST

  Greetings to my fellow Rush-fans.  What with alll the boring diatribe
  we've had for discussions for the last couple of months or so, I sat
  down to think what would be a good idea to liven up the digests and
  possibly keep everyone from sounding like philosophy professors in
  a great deal of their posts.  Now I know we've done a lot of polls
  and they generally don't get that great deal of responses to it, but
  I know that others here want to be able to have something constructive
  to express be it in a poll or whatever.  So I offer the following...

    Most Rush fans have a certain song that they like because I gets their
  adrenaline pumping and starts them playing their favorite air-instrument
  du jour.  A real kick-ass song, if you will.  For me, it's either "Force
  Ten" or maybe "Big Money".  Since everyone here likes Rush for different
  reasons, this is sure to be different for everybody (or most everybody.)
  What I want you to do, is send me your 3 favorite kick-ashd3qss Rush songs
  in order from first to third.  From the entries, I will assign 3 points
  to your favorite, 2 for your second, and 1 for your third.  I will
  accept submissions for about a week or so, what with T-giving right
  around the corner.  Please reply via e-mail and not the digest, as I know
  David would have our asses on shish-kabobs if we did such thing.

   I look forward to hearing from as many of you as possible, and I'll
  post the results at some time after the Thanksgiving holiday.

  Ciao folks!

 ********   **    **   *******    **                  J.C. Rush
 **         **    **   **         **  
 **         **    **   *******    *******   "Rising and falling at force ten,
 **         **    **        **    **   **     we twist the world and ride
 **         ********   *******    **   **       the wind." - N.Peart


From: mr1cy1 
Subject: Fruity Bones
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 11:10:59 +0000 (GMT)

Hey, all. This won't be a short post. (And there was much sleep)

Re. the NEW THREAD!!, I got my 5th row dead centre seat via the "Spirit
of Rush" (fanzine), and mighty good 'twas too. I'm interested in any
recordings available of that Good Friday Wembley concert, BTW. Or any
RTB tour frankly. I think I sang so loud Geddy noticed! (oops, never
mind) But anyhow, apparently all the tickets were for good seats, and no
extra cost I think.

"Serengeti night" - is a tundra area somewhere, isn't it? Anyhow, it's a
location of some sort, when it's dark. I'm helpful, aren't I! That would
seem appropriate with the lions, though.

Re. discussion on ultradiscs etc. Hey everybody I still use TAPES! Whoa,
stone age huh? (cue "but I'm a poor student" routine :-) ) The noise
isn't important if the music's good enough, but then of course the
music's good enough not to have noise interfering. Arrgh!

Re. Rush the 1st album, mention by TJM. Well, I think they recorded it
in a studio (see "Success Under Pressure"), I also seem to remember
Broon helped them at some stage.

And about that thing about Neil in a bar, ok not true obviously but it
then should have been funny right? Or surely it's pointless. And does
Jim Gordon's post in 557 make it a 'least believable encounter' thread!?

Can't resist a challenge... here's my go then:

Geddy's a pink banana. I bumped into him on a holiday I recently had on
the moon. There weren't many people there, as you can imagine, and so we
bumped into each other eventually (well, I actually trod on him and
slipped up). After I apologised, we got to talking about his uncanny
human form which had been unexpectedly absent during his stay on the
moon. He explained that it wouldn't have held together due to the low
gravity. This, he said, was akin to the problem his plastic skin has
with heat. He keeps spare "body parts" to cope with this at concerts
(see RTB tour programme). The robot arms he uses are at the cutting edge
of technology, appropriate for Rush; they're thought controlled, and
their quick response explains how he can play bass so deftly.

He was pink because the raw UV gives you a great tan, unless you burn
easily like Ged. He was getting redder as we talked, in fact. He
explained also that his characteristically high voice was a consequence
of a banana's tiny vocal chords (or else they'd taste funny). I can
confirm that Geddy's real height is seven inches. He explained that,
being a fruit, he often gets confused by everyday phrases. Talk to him
about tour dates, for example, and he thinks you're on about roadies. He
had difficulty relating to Roll the Bones, having none of his own.
Apparently, one part of La Villa Strangiato was incorrectly named. It
was supposed to be Danfig and Pear. Anyhow, after a most enlightening
chat, I bid him a good day and we both exploded due to pressure
imbalance. We should have worn spacesuits, I guess.

It's all true, *really!* (I just hope Ged never reads it)

And I must just briefly (oh yeah) defend the (ooooooooh yeah) lyrics on
the (whoa, whoa) first album... especially the epic Take A Friend.

This is clearly an exploration of the anguish and paranoia caused by
kidnapping. For example, "Looks like you got no friends/No one to stick
with you till the end" is delving into the thoughts of the kidnapped
party, and their fear of death at the hands of their ex-friend. The
kidnapper's stance is described by "Keep 'em till the end" and his/her
psychotic glee by "It makes you feel so good, so good".

As Neil has said, "lyrically speaking, I'm seriously addicted to irony".

Seriously though, only some of the lyrics on the 1st album are *really*
shallow, and the music is quite entertaining and often good, e.g. What
You're Doing and Working Man. I'm still sure it's their worst album
though, despite the progressive absence of the letters 'g' and 'i' as in
"Always try'n' to put us down".

Rush trivia for the day - "Caress of Steel" is the album with the
highest count of the letter 'z' in the lyrics (either 10 or 8, depending
on if you count repetitions). "Presto" comes second with 8 or 7.
Only "Rush", "Fly by Night" and "Moving Pictures" (YYZ isn't a lyric)
have none. Rush are alphabetically varied too, it seems!

Sorry, really must say Rush Through Time is quite good, but is merely a
compilation of tracks from early albums. I got it for 5 pounds, and $15 is
a bit of a rip-off, frankly.

Oh well, that's me for now,

PS. anyone else care to provide interesting interpretations for any
tracks from "Rush"?


From: Scott Kaplan 
Subject: Neil at a gay bar.  So *what*?
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:25:27 -0500 (EST)

I find it hard to believe that trouble that DFB3B0BE went through to
see "proof" of Neil Peart's alleged homosexuality, and I am greatly disturbed
at the reaction it caused in the writer's belief in the band.

Personally, I think some people are maybe a *little* to fanatic about the band.
I have been a big fan for years, and it's not that I am disturb by this
person's willingness to say that he now has doubts about the band...It is *why*
those doubts came about.

First of all, as someone else has already said, what Neil does in his private
life is 1) Nobody's business, and 2) Of no bearing on his writing or playing.
I commend magazines like Modern Drummer and the others that were offered these
Polaroids for not partaking in sensationalism.  Neil Peart has been one of the
largest influences on the drumming community within the last twenty years, and
a music magazine knows that it has no business printing things about the
private lives of the musicians.

Moreover, after years of listening to Rush and thinking about their songs, how
can you suddenly accept, from some man you don't know, "He's a washout.  All
of his writing comes from his confusion about his sexuality".  *IF* there is
any truth to that, you should come to that conclusion by thinking about it
carefully, relistening to songs, and reaching your own conclusions.  And you
were shatted by this conclusion (if it is one at all) sinking in?  If you are
really so close-minded to think that his sexual preference shatters his image
and his accomplishments as a writer and musician, you should be ashamed.

Scott Kaplan


Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 19:37:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "Philip M. Simon" 
Subject: Gay bar rumour

    These rumours are ridiculous.  I wonder if Neil's wife accompanied
him to the alleged gay bar.



Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 17:21:11 -0800
From: mikes@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Rocinante)
Subject: Neils Impetus....

	Hey all..... Just read DFB3B0BE 's little story... As far as
the Photo and all.. I don't know/care .... what got me was this so called
confusion about sexuality being the Impetus of his song writting.. yeah so
after I looked up the word.... I realized that this individual COULD be like
a few guys I knew here at UC Santa Cruz. They try to get the person YOU may
look up to.... to be Gay < or what ever cause they are simpathetic towards >


Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 20:39:37 -0500 (EST)
From: "Nathanel J. Barlow" 
Subject: Re: 11/12/92 - The National Midnight Star #557

On the question about "Serengeti night", the Serengeti is a huge
grassland game park in Tanzania, East Africa.  It is the largest such
park in the world.  Having had the good fortune to spend two of the
seventeen years of my life in Tanzania, I've had the experience of being
on a safari in the Serengeti (as well as several other such game parks).
 I would try to explain exactly what a Serengeti night is like, but my
memories run a little thin (I was either 7 or 8 at the time).  I do
remember that camping in a tent in the wilds of Africa with all those
marvelous animals about was quite an experience, something everyone
should have the opportunity to try.



Date:         Mon, 16 Nov 92 20:09:50 CST
From: Luis Arturo Loyo Delgado 
Subject:      Re: peart at a gay bar?

Hey guys:
   I'm reading my mail, and I found in Monday 16's NMS a post of someone
who tries to state that Neil Peart is gay...
   I don't know about you, all the other readers, but I'm *really* pissed
off with this post. Lyda, what are you trying to pull out here?? Are you
trying to make us say "hey, there's a gay in the band, I don't like them
anymore" ? I think that the boyz deserve to do with their lives whatever
they want, and that should not concern us. We love rush, and we don't love
THEM, we love their music, their lyrics, etc., even if they're gay...
   Anyway, just my two cents... (BTW, what do you think??)

Pirri (on IRC)

"If I could wave my magic wand, I'd make everything alright..." (Presto,1989)


From: (Jeremy Goldberg Consultant)
Subject: Re: 11/16/92 - The National Midnight Star #559
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 21:51:00 EST


I understand I have no control over what others post here.

And so, I will not waste EVEN MORE energy and space in this newsletter by
setting the slanderers straight one by one.

But I have a thought to offer, to all those who have sent insulting and
insensitive posts, treading on the trust of other fans.

I cannot make these arrogant posts cease, myself alone. I'd like to continue
reading the NMS, sharing touring/album/memoribilia information, and I love
the occasional shared experience, as long as it is well intentioned. I
really appreciated Christopher Mermagen's anecdote on the band. One doesn't
have to admire the band like he and I do (I am the one who started the thread,
in an effort to continue discussions of substance). But dragging their names
through the mud is just not kosher in a FAN newsletter.

I want to continue to read and contribute to the star, so I gently (and
less angrily) suggest to those of you that you CONSIDER before you make
a scandalous and immature post. Normally, I ignore these, as I think we
all should. But by now, the dregs have begun to outweigh the flavour of
this publication.

		with gruesome and trivial rumours.

Jeremy Goldberg.


From: (Jeremy Goldberg Consultant)
Subject: Line Trape
Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 21:58:39 EST

	"If this is what our FANS say, what do our ENEMIES say
			     about us?"

I NEVER quote any member of the band, but this one sentence may paraphrase
my previous post.

I do not want to put this band member's reputation on the line any further.

Jeremy Goldberg


Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1992 22:29 EDT
Subject: Neil Peart in a gay bar, Tolerance

In response to
>Date: Fri, 13 Nov 92 17:40:44 cdt
>From: "14A2C28C" 
>Subject: peart at gay bar?

Excuse ME?  "Rush on, those who still believe"
How can you be a fan of a band that has as its main themes Induvidualism and
 "To each their own" and still be that narrowminded.  If most of the people on
 this list agree with you then it will be my illusion that will
be painfully shattered.  What business do you have prying into Neil's private
life anyway?  So what if he's gay, one in ten people are.  There is NOTHING
wrong with it.  I am as straight as one of Alex's E-strings,
but let's get real here. This is 1992, you'd think we'd be past all this by
now.  His sexual preference has
nothing to do that he is one of the finest musicians and lyricists ever to 
grace our ears.  Why don't you do
a little research and find out that homosexuality may not be common (like I
said only around 10 percent in
this country) or accepted (thank God that's changing) but it is NORMAL in a
 mental and physical health sense.  There is nothing wrong with it.  As for
 Neil's lyrics possibly having some root in his sexuality, if he is gay,
I'm not really that surprised.
 "Deviate from the norm""  Indeed!
End of sermon.
I apologize in advance if I misinterpreted the tone of your post.

Flames to
(or if you're really brave, soc.motss, which I don't read)


Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 23:20:52 -0500
From: sxk29@po.CWRU.Edu (Susan Kretschmer)
Subject: Xanadu and other misc. comments

OK!  COuldn't resist adding my quick opinion to the Xanadu thread.  I have
a fairly simple interpretation of this poem.  I think its genius lies in
its imagery.  Basically, Coleridge is describing his version of the
Eastern paradis he imagined when reading in Purchas' Pilgramage of the
legendary figure Kubla Khan and his Xanadu.  In Coleridge's version, I
believe what he is essentially saying is the very old concept that if you were
to achieve something like paradise, it wouldn't turn out to be Paradise at all.
(Hmmm...does this theme sound familiar?)

Now I don't think Kubla searched for Xanadu, I think he was rich, being a khan,
found a perhaps slightly supernatural location and commanded his "pleasure
dome" to be built there.  So here is a guy with tons of $ trying to create
perfection with it.  And what he creates is a world that is alluring and
seductive, and to Western sensibilities decadent. Period.  The poem ends
here (unfortunately).  The last few lines do NOT spell out entrapment literally.

However I think from the lines leading up to them, and from the analogous
concepts in Greek myth of eating pomegranates and getting stuck in the
underworld that that is the general idea.  This illustrates the difference
between the kinds of reading of a piece of literature.  Obviously there has
to be some basic agreement at an objective level on very simple concepts
so that we know we are talking about the same poem, so that is legit to
say: Objective fact: the river Alph ran through the caves of ice down to the
sea.  But the ability to define a "correct" interpretation stops there.
Anything more that you get from the poem is YOURS; that's what you make of
it.  In the song "Xanadu" we see Neil giving us his take on things, which
is every bit as valid as mine or that in the other posts here, or Coleridge's
own.  It has even been said that the number and variety of different possible
interpretations is a measure of the greatness of a work.

Now for anyone who WANTS a massively allegorical interpretation of this poem
(and perhaps of the song), how about this:

DISCLAIMER:  I am not saying that Peart or Coleridge intended this, or even
 that *I* think it's true, I just think it's interesting.

Consider, especially since we know Coleridge was smoking opium while writing
Xanadu, that the "paradise" referred to is that of drugs.  Seductive, strange
and new, and ultimately entrapping, it sounds a lot like Xanadu, eh?

Hehe, I said I wouldn't post things this long again...
I lied :)

Susie Kretschmer
CWRU School of Medicine		         "Don't ask me, I'm just improvising"
Class of 1997			 			--Rush, PRESTO


Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 23:45:53 -0500
From: sxk29@po.CWRU.Edu (Susan Kretschmer)
Subject: ...and misc. comments

And the non-Xanadu stuff:

Kudos to Roo-Dog Rip for his impressive explanation of why inter-atomic
spacings cannot a better CD make! Where were you when I was taking physics?

Concerning an NMS CD: Awesome idea!!!  I (and my graphic-designer sister)
volunteer (gulp!) to design the CD cover, insert and lyric sheets, if
no one else wants to.

RE: Alex's son working at the hard rock cafe: Cool, that's the band I love--
it is good to see they seem to live their values.

RE: NMS T-shirt...This is a great idea, but can I plead for the long-haired
people and ask that the picture go on the front?  Long hair can make the back
of a T-shirt moot!   I like the idea of the email address on there too!
In terms of color I have done T-shirts using black on cream and black on grey
with most people being happy with them.  White on dark blue was also popular.

Re IRC: Try it, you'll like it!  Join channel #p/g! late-ish almost any night;
I go by "catwoman1" .

OK, this is the end of the post, I promise!

Susie Kretschmer
CWRU School of Medicine		         "Don't ask me, I'm just improvising"
Class of 1997			 			--Rush, PRESTO


Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 19:50:13 HST
From: puanani@wana.pbrc.Hawaii.Edu (Puanani Akaka)
Subject: auwe noho'ie!!!

Enough is enough.

This is the first time I've gotten *PISSED* at anything that's been
on this Digest.  Up till now, I've silently encouraged any and all
discussion on *anything* -- even subjects that have whipped the poor
horse into decay.  My feeling is, if people want to discuss it, let
'em discuss it!  If I, personally don't want to read it, I'll just
simply skip over it, and let others freely discuss what they so choose.

But this time is different.  I CANNOT believe the BULLSH*T this Digest
has been churning out in the past few issues.  I'm sorry, but I CANNOT
sit back and read this stuff without saying something (and believe me,
my temper isn't something you want to #!*%*^ around with!).

This whole rumour-mongering business with Neil has got to stop.  I
couldn't give a rat's behind what the h*ll he did -- it's NOBODY's
goddamn business but his.  God, no wonder he was on valium -- it's
the *fans* that put him on it! (alright, alright, i'll strike that).
(sigh) I'm sorry, I *really* am trying to control my temper...

Look, I don't care if any of that is true -- but unless I hear it
from Neil himself -- unless ANY OF US hear it from Neil himself --
it's a moot point and I *seriously suggest* we just end this 'thread'
right here and now.  If they all want to be gay with illegitimate
children running around -- fine.  It's their life, not ours.  If
people want to go ahead and seek out the truth on their own time,
great.  More power to you.  But unless these types of rumours are
given BASIS IN FACT in terms of signed by the band with their own
blood, then let's just leave them the h*ll out of here.  Rumours are
a nasty thing (and I call this "story" a *rumour*), and I recommend
we stay out of the rumour-mill business.  I hate censorship, but when
stuff like this starts running around with the possibility of seriously
damaging someone's life, it becomes justifiable to me to edit it out.
(is that possible, rush-mgr??)

please, in the future, THINK about what it is you're posting.  let's
stop spreading rumours and stories like this -- even if it's just a
joke.  It's NOBODY's business -- let me repeat that --
and I shake my head at the *gall* we sometimes get for thinking that we
have the right to make it our business.  Like I said before, let's give
them as much *RESPECT* as we do admiration.

auwe noho'ie
that's all that can be said...



Date: Mon, 16 Nov 92 22:06:07 -0800
From: (Eric W. Anderson "ERK")
Subject: rush tourbooks

Lucky me, I was browsing around a used bookstore and ran across some Rush tour
books: Presto, HYF, PW, P/G, Signals, MP, and some other one which said only
something about pictures and lyrics part 2 (written in permanent wave fashion) 
with RUSH written in Hemispheres script.  Anyways, I bought them all up except 
for the presto, power windows, and grace under pressure which I already own...
they were kind of expensive (for my pocket book) but if anyone is interested I 
will pick up the rest and we can figure something if this is of 

My question is when did Rush start putting out tour books, ie, how far back do
they go...and in what form are they...all the ones I have are the huge square
shape except for the last one described above which is more like 10x16??

One other thing regarding the MP tour book it seems to have an entire page p
printed twice...was this common for all the books...




Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 01:26:20 -0500
From: Christopher Mermagen 
Subject: A little pissed about these Peart stories... & Dream Theatre

Look, leave their personal lives alone. If I didn't know any better, I'd
think I am actually reading the National Midnight Star that Peart wrote
about in p/g!!! Come on.. I for one don't want to here about Peart in
a gay bar (I highly think this is garbage), or maybe other trashy
rumors... so what If you think it is validated... I don't want to think
of Peart being gay every time I see him now, which is probably what
will happen thanks to your propoganda kick. So do yourself a favor
and keep that dirt to yourself next time. I would rather discuss songs
and lyrics, maybe concert tours, shows, feelings about their songs,
but I'll sure bet that others don't wanna hear about this.. (then
again, maybe I'm dead wrong!!). Sorry about the nasty feelings, but
I guess I just don't like all this talk about it..

On a brighter/louder note, Dream Theatre is playing Hammerjacks here
in Baltimore I believe on Fri, Dec. 13?? If that is the correct date-
maybe 11th. Anyway, I know I am going- should be a killer show...

Also, what were Rush doing in Seattle, anyway? Are they going to record
there and become one of those new-age seattle rock bands... I can't
picture geddy singing "A mosquito, my lombido, yeah" or "hear we
are now, acting stupid!" or something cheezball like that..



Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 01:38:25 -0500
From: nam2@po.CWRU.Edu (Nicholas A. Mascari)
Subject: Opener for next tour

>From: Mike 
>Subject:      The next tour
>Fellow Rushians,
>I have been wondering who you would think would be the best (most fitting/
>appropriate) openning act on the next tour...
>I personally vote very enthusuastically for Dream Theater, their new album is
>amazing, they have a huge Rush influence (the guitarist even has a preset on
>his rack called "Lifeson"---seriously, I saw it myself!), and (perhaps most
>importantly), they are on the same Atlantic label...

I agree whole-heartedly Mike. I had never even heard these guys but went to
see them just because I heard they were a really good progressive band with
some Rush influence. I was so totally blown away....besides the tickets were
only $6.50! :)  Of course, Mike got to INTERVIEW them....lucky son of a...:)

>Another Random note:  I am also a Rush fan on IRC, so /join #p/g! and say hi to
>me and my good froinds trroy, catwoman1, rocinante, patster, tvos, slythex,
>snow-dog, lerxst, geddy, peart, toneeee, rush, and of course, out ever-loyal
>bot RushServ... HEY GUYS! (and cat)...My nick is Jvi, so come on one night!

Well, speaking as another regular of channel #p/g!, I can tell you that
Mike's nickname changes every week so it won;t be Jvi anymore next week I'll
bet :). Anyway, I'm the one who goes by Peart, (no, im not a drummer just a
wannabe), and we do have a lot of fun. 5 of us from #p/g! even organized
and met each other this past summer to the St Louis show together. We had
a total blast. Thanks again for a good time to Mike (Rocinante), Dave (tvos),
Tony (toneeee) and Lewis (drama). We'll have a #p/g! convention in case
there's no nms convention, eh!?

Later all....dream Rush

|~~~\ |    | /~~~\ |    |    Nick Mascari - Case Western Reserve University
|___/ |    | \__   |____|            General Electric Lighting
| \   |    |     \ |    |   "All life is future to past, Every breath leaves
|   \  \__/  \___/ |    |       me one less to my last." -Dream Theatre


From: (Richard R. Rubel)
Subject: Wanted; tape TWO of Chronicles
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 7:11:00 EST

For the second time, I've lost tape two of my Chronicles set (or it's grown legs
If someone out there has lost tape one, and wants to sell tape two alone, please
let me know.


Subject: Re: good seats / subliminal covers
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 09:37:32 -0500
From: David Arnold 

In NMS #559 Glen Reed <3TANVOZ@CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU> wrote:

>heyhey... a couple of things to say, eh...  First, someone mentioned that the
>fair way of getting tickets was "those who want them the most wait the
>"longest" Yeah.. this is a great philosophy....  On the last tour, I waited
>for something like 11 hours or so in Philly for tickets, we (me & my friends)
>were like 50th in line or something....  Anyway, we ended up with tickets in
>the lower level, not even on the damn floor!...   Then, again, at the Byrne
>Arena show, I called someone, who went to Ticketmaster for me to get tickets,
>and I ended up with almost the same seats, except on Neil's side of the stage
>instead of Geddy's.. There's gotta be some way to get good tix w/o waiting
>for like 3 days or paying hundreds of dollars... :-/

Well, from personal experience of seeing Rush for over 10 years, I'd have to
back up the first quote above - the better seats you want, the more you have
to be willing to endure, or pay.  There's also a trick to camping for tickets;
scope out places that sell tickets, and see what kinds of crowds are there
for similar shows (Yes, ELP, whatever).  If you go to a place that few people
know about, your chances are MUCH higher.

I've had experiences from sleeping overnight and being 2nd in line to showing
up the afternoon before tickets go on sale and been 40th in line.  It depends
upon how many others have the same idea.  I have a place I know of around here
that is pretty good; I've been 3rd or so on several occasions.  I'm not telling
where, either!  :-)

As for placement; you were 50th in line and complained about not getting a
floor seat??  Sheesh, I've been 5th in line and not gotten floor, and I was
only buying four tickets!  Of course, I live in a fairly densely populated
area (Washinton D.C./Baltimore MD), so there are literally dozens of ticket
outlets I'm fighting.  My attitude is, don't count on floor unless you're one
of the first 5 in line.  If you're much farther back, you might as well phone
it in, you might get closer.  I phoned in once for the PoW tour and got 15th

Of course, the alternative is to drop $50-$150 for a choice seat, but shop
around if you do that.  I recently heard of 10th row for over $100, but
another person had 2nd row for $90.

My attitude is, grab a sleeping bag & pillow, bring soda/beer and a book,
and make an evening of it.  Find a ticket outlet in the middle of nowhere
and tuff it out.  (Let me tell you about sleeping on the street in the snow
for tickets, sonny... )

David Arnold			      | Rush/Jethro Tull/Crack the Sky/Squeeze/
Inet:	      | Neville Brothers/Peter Gabriel/Queen/
Bitnet:  | Talking Heads/King Crimson/Pink Floyd/
UUCP: uunet!!davida     | Rolling Stones/BOC/ELP/Police/SRV
NeXTmail:      | Tori Amos/Suzanne Vega/To be continued

To join the Rush mailing list, send mail to:   or      (Please include your name and e-mail address.)


Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:19 EST
Subject: Pieces of Eight, The Rhythm Method, and Natural Science

Hey everyone!!!

The first time I listened to "Pieces of Eight" I noticed the mallet part from
the Rhythm Method...that's obvious, but did anyone else realize that most of
"Pieces of Eight" is simply variations on the "Hyperspace" segment of "Natural
Science".  I thought that was really cool!!!

Just thought you might wanna know...


| Kevin Ryan Patrick Kirwan             | "You know how that rabbit feels,     |
| The University of Pittsburgh Drumline |  Going under your spinning wheels.   |
| "We'll Strike Like Lightning,         |  Bright images flashing by,          |
|                and Leave You Shocked" |  Like windshields towards a fly."    |
| INTERNET:     |         -- Rush "Between the Wheels" |


Date:    Tue, 17 Nov 1992 9:52:35 -0600 (CST)
From: SMITH@EPVAX.MSFC.NASA.GOV (The Ice-9-man Cometh)
Subject: Shattered illusions of integrity (NOT)


First off, whoever posted the "I saw proof that Neil is gay" message, I
hope you are sure, as you could conceivably have opened yourself up to a
lawsuit (though I doubt Neil would bother).

Secondly, who cares?  I don't see why Neil's sex life should shatter
anyone's ideas about the band.  Internal confusion is usually the source
of creativity, and if Neil's comes from sexual ambiguity, hey, it provides
us with some seriously cool lyrics, right?

Rush-mgr, I hope you don't get stuck with editing out a bunch of gay-pride-
vs.-fagbash posts over this issue...good luck....

|    James W. Smith, NASA MSFC EP-53    |      |
|    "I'm going home, taking a hot bath, and sleeping alone!"
|                                                --Omaha the Cat Dancer      |
|     Neither NASA nor (!James) is responsible for what I say. Mea culpa.    |


From: (Baltasar Allende Reva)
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 10:06:31 -0600
Subject: TMNS CD Update #3

TMNS (not official!) Update #3
        Hi everyone, this post is going to try to answer several questions
that have been brought up lately.  First I like to point out that the
support has now been great (thanks everyone!).

        As far as cost is concerned, I understand that recently some computer
manufacturers (also JVC) are putting out machines for under $16,000.  This
means that many local shops are going to start appering everywhere,
and their fees will be small.  This I'm going to investigate even further.

        I have come across many great show that have not been circulated,
this material would be prime.  Ofcourse sound checks, and rarely played
songs would also be cool.

Art Work
        As far as art is concerned, that is no problem.  I happen to live
in the same city as a professional photographer that has awesome pictures
of the boyz as early as GUP (and maybe much earlier too..though haven't
seen those).

So basically its alot of work, but it certainly can be done.  What
does everyone think?  I going to start doing more research on this, and I'll
keep everyone up-to-date.



From: Chris Schiller 
Subject: Fantastic Neil Stories
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 9:37:54 PST

OK, I'm making an extreme effort to keep an open mind about these Neil
stories, but it is obvious that people are just trying to cause a stir.
Then they will try to defend themselves by accusing everyone of hero

This following story is an obvious example of extreme leg pulling.  Read
it again.  It lacks sincerity and reeks of an effort to sound plausable.

Lines like:    "As I traveled down 35 to Oklahoma, I arranged an appointment
                with this guy (Larry Gardner) who was stationed at SS..."
               "out of the three major "other way" bars there, only one
		would neither confirm or deny Peart's frequent visits."

This person should write for the tabloids.  What about the _minor_ "other
way" bars?  Maybe they wouldn't sound as suspicious and walk that "neither
confirm or deny" line that we KNOW makes them out to be liars.

And then the grim finale...Is all hope lost?  Is our prophet painfully
shattered?  How can we survive to live another day?  Somebody, please
add some smileys to this groaner:

              " -Rush those who still believe. "

The story is repeated in it's entirety below for your scandalous reading

Chris Schiller


Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 12:48:38 -0500
From: Mike Hackett 
Subject: NMS T-Shirts

I like how this idea is shaping up, but I think it would be cool to add
some sort of Rush line or quote to the shirt, a la the Genesis list's
shirt (which, BTW, I think is perfect - if they ever get it printed!).
There's is "I know what I like..." on the front, and "in MY wardrobe" on
the back.  I thought that was perfect.  However, can we on this list come
to any consensus on a favourite or appropriate phrase for our shirt?
I'm sure people will come up with better, but off the top of my head,
the following come to mind:

"Catch the spirit, catch the fish"
"Plus c'est la change, plus c'est la mem chose" (sorry if I've misspelled)

What does everyone think?  If you like the idea, how about throwing
some possible quotes out and when we've collected a few, we can vote.
The problem being, of course, if the vote is heavily split and there is
no clear winner, it could put many people off the shirt.  So we'd need a

Mike Hackett
University of Western Ontario


Date: 17 Nov 1992 13:51:28 -0500 (EST)
From: "Kevin J. Sullivan" 
Subject: Re: 11/16/92 - The National Midnight Star #559

   Just to make a quick suggestion, if the CD thing is going to happen I think
we should probably vote on the following:

   1) How many are willing to buy it?
   2) What songs should it contain?

  I personally would think it a waste to put live songs on it, but if rare
songs were on it, you could count me in.  Also if you can't generate enough
responses from e-mail then it probably won't fly.
  Oh, and while I'm here, enough with the stupid little Neil stories, this is
the National Midnight Star not the National Enquirer.




Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 16:01:39 -0500
From: (Gregg Jaeger)
Subject: Xanadu (please post at end)

>From: (Ron Wiseman)

>According to "Theme and Image: An anthology of peotry/ Book 1" by
>Carol Gillanders:

>	The last stanza does not imply any imprisonment, according to this
>	book, but tells of Colridge's attempt to recreate Kubla Khan's
>	pleasurable society in words-
>		"I would build that dome in air" - recreate it in verse
>		"And all should cry, beware, beware" - stand in awe of my
>			poetry.
>		"And weave a circle around him thrice" - 'weave a circle'
>			means 'cast a spell'.

Great input Ron. So this author agrees with Tadd that the poem is primarily
descriptive in function. If the correspondences above are correct then
Coleridge was one hell of an egotist :). If "weave..." means cast a spell
then Coleridge is asking the discoverer to cast a spell upon KK if they come
upon him, which is not likely possible for the average discoverer. The
way the last stanza _could_ be interpreted this way (minus the spell)
is for Coleridge to be identifying himself with Khan (as "builder" of
the dome and caves) and the readers as those who might discover Khan.

This is fine on the metaphorical level, but there is _still_ a literal
level to be discussed. While it is true that one may read the poem as pure
egomaniacal metaphor as the author suggests, it is also possible to
understand the poem literally in the way I've been suggesting, which
is that one could go to Xanadu and find Khan in the pleasure dome
in a state of transcendence.

Let me present what my book of Coleridge poems
(_Coleridge: poems_, ed. John Beer (opium would have been more
appropriate :) ) says:

  "Kubla Khan", to sum up, is a poem with two major themes: genius and
  the lost paradise. In the first stanza the man of commanding genius,
  the fallen but demonic man, strives to rebuild the lost paradise in a
  world which is, like himself, fallen.... In the second stanza, the
  other side of the demonic reasserts itself -- the mighty fountain in
  the savage place, the wailing woman beneath the waning moon, the
  demon-lover. Finally in the last stanza, there is a vision of paradise
  regained -- of man revisited by the absolute genius which corresponds
  to his original, unfallen state, of the honey-dew fountain of
  immortality re-established in the garden, of complete unity between
  Apollo with his lyre and the damsel with the dulcimer...It is only
  in the last stanza, when the poet turns from his problem to himself
  to express his complete aims, that a complete fusion [of man's life-
  experiences] is reached -- indeed the remainder of his career can
  be viewed as the quest for the ideal community, an ideal woman, an
  ideal poem...

This interpretation works on the metaphorical level much the same way
the one Ron found, but putting Coleridge in a little less egomaniacal light.

>	But personally, I just think the guy was stoned.

He was stoned, absolutely!

>From:	(Tadd Jensen)

>Just a few more comments about Gregg Jaeger's interpretations of "Kubla

>Enlightening as well, I enjoyed hearing your interpretation, Gregg, of "fixed"
>transcendence as you related it to teh following snippet.  Yet I do have one
>thing to add...  the lines that immediately preceed it:

>I would build that dome in air,
>That sunny dome! those caves of ice!
>> "And all who heard should see them[Khan and his "demon lover"] there
>>  And all should cry, Beware! Beware!
>>  His flashing eyes his floating hair!
>>  Weave a circle round him thrice
>>  And close your eyes with holy dread
>>  For he on honey-dew hath fed,
>>  And drunk the milk of Paradise"

>Unfortunately, the addition of those "important" lines shows that you were
>a touch out of context!  My point being that, evidently, it can't be said
>for certain whether "them" refers to Khan/"demon lover" or to the forementioned
>dome and caves.

Well, it would be a bit odd if "them" should refer to the dome and caves
since one is supposed to beware of *Khan* with his flashing eyes and
floating hair. If one parses the sections carefully one sees that the
them _does_ refer to Khan and the woman (actually it is Khan that is
demonic for certain, I just called her a demon too since they are
presumably copulating, etc.). Parse as follows:

>I would build that dome in air,
>That sunny dome! those caves of ice!

>>  And all who heard should see them[Khan and his "demon lover"] there
>>  And all should cry, Beware! Beware!
>>  His flashing eyes his floating hair!

>>  Weave a circle round him thrice
>>  And close your eyes with holy dread
>>  For he on honey-dew hath fed,
>>  And drunk the milk of Paradise"

The `lack of context' does not make any of my points moot. Actually,
it is irrelevant as _I_ was discussing this poem on the _literal_ level
only (where the narrator's two self-referential lines are of secondary
importance vis-a-vis Khan and lover, which is why they were left out
in my posting). With the whole stanza and this parsing it becomes clear
how the literal and figurative (i.e. metaphorical) aspects are connected
through the identity of the author (Coleridge) with the (unnamed)
narrator at the end of the poem (Beer's "fusing").

>The "demon lover" and to some extent the following also appear to be moot...

Not! See below:

>> >Are you saying that the persona of Kubla Khan did some searching himself?

>> Only in Coleridge's case; in the poem Khan discovers Xanadu and the
>> demon lover, and builds the pleasure dome there in paradise. In
>> Neil's case the "discoverer" comes across Xanadu _and_ the already
>> constructed pleasure dome (no Khan to be found) and dines and drinks,
>> suffering the same fate [except for the "demon lover" :( ] as Khan
>> does in Coleridge's version.

>You repeatedly refer to the "demon lover," almost as though it's a
>significant part of the poem.  Well, I never thought that the "demon-lover"
>existed AT ALL!!  This "lover" is only mentioned once in the poem,
>in the verses: "A savage place! as holy and enchanted As ever beneath
>a waning moon was haunted By woman wailing for her demon-lover!"

>Here I feel Coleridge used a SIMILE.

You mean METAPHOR. Sure, you can say that the demon-lover does not exist
at all but then neither to the pleasure dorm and caves of ice. If
something is _mentioned_ then it must exist (on some level). I see no
reason to believe that on the literal level the woman does not exist,
as you claim:

>  You may disagree, but I didn't think
>there *was* a "demon-lover," it just being part of a figurative expression.

The editor Beer seems to agree with me on this point, and you've
provided no reason to believe that the lover (or woman) are purely

>So what's my point here?  Well, just like before, now we can't even agree on
>whether there was a "demon-lover" or not.  Concepts that you see as
>black-and-white, I see as arguable, and vice versa.

_Everything in the universe_ is _arguable_ from _some_ perspective.
I'm not seeing things as black and white, just clear and supported by
evidence or unclear and unsupported by evidence. The difference is that
I'm interested in understanding clearly what is being said clearly.

>Similarly, I never thought that Coleridge's work implied that Kubla did
>any "searching" for, or in your words, "discovers" Xanadu at all, like the
>Peart version makes obvious!  For all we know, the original Kubla had always
>been there (perhaps some kind of eastern "Adam?")  Truthfully, I never
>quite knew for sure just WHO or WHAT Kubla was!!  Was he even human?

Yes. There is no searching _described_ in the poem, but Kubla Khan
_was_ a real person (dates 1216-1294 according to _The American Heritage
Dictionary_) and there is no reason to believe he was born in a cave of
ice and had always been in a supernatural state. That he _was_ a
real person gives reason to believe that in the poem Coleridge has
him imbibing the "milk of paradise" and entering a transcendental state
of immortality.

> Yet all those opinions should be seen
>as interesting and given fair consideration,

Sure, if I didn't find them interesting enough to dispute I would never
have responded to the original posting.

> because people arrived at
>those views via specific personal reasons (okay, not always!)

Why should _that_ be a reason for them to be given fair consideration?
On the contrary, they should be given fair consideration only if they
are based on something objective (i.e. are interesting).

>[I've never] thought it exactly clear who this persona was.  But let
>me venture the following analysis:

>All of the poem is in the third person till the last stanza which is in the
>first person (apparently the voice of Kubla himself).  Since the third person
>voice actually mentions Kubla by name twice, it is not that of Kubla, so let's
>say it is simply the author's "narrative."

On Beer's and Gillanders' interpretations the narrator (the "I") of
the last stanza is Coleridge. I tend to agree with them -- this is
where the metaphorical and descriptive aspects of the poem are connected.
It is _as if_ Coleridge had been to Xanadu.

In the poem as a whole, when one looks at the figurative
(i.e. metaphorical) and descriptive (i.e. literal) aspects of the
poem independently, on the literal level one sees the narrator recounting
his discovery of Khan in a fixed state of (immortal) transcendence,
and on the metaphorical level one sees the narrator talking about
himself and his poetry.

On Neil's retelling there is only the literal level, which is why
Neil's version is so much easier to understand.

>It is this narrative that provides all the imagery of Xanadu, a sort
>of "discovery" (so to speak) for the reader.


>  Is Xanadu simply being described, or is it in the process of
>being "discovered," and if so, who is doing the discovering?  Do you think
>this interpretation of mine deserves any merit?  Is this maybe why you
>thought there was "searching" or "discovery?"  Again, all this is moot
>anyway, so it's pointless to argue about!

It's _not_ moot, and I hope I've answered these questions in the above.


>> But, seeing as I'm the one who thinks there _are_ objective meanings,

>I never said there aren't objective meanings, I simply feel that a lot
>less can be looked at as "objective" than what you believe.  Look at how
>much trouble this world is in because everyone, each in their own little
>religious/social/economic/ethnic group, feels that their beliefs ALONE
>constitute the "objective" truth.

Reread your original posting and I think you'll see why I made this
statement -- you came across like a total relativist (there are such
people you know). Note also that I was precise about how much
objectivity I was attributing to this poem (I said that I was not
claiming that it was somehow logically equivalent to a small set
of propositions). Wooaaaah! Just because I think that good writers
(like Coleridge and Peart) write things with sufficient clarity that
their writings can be understood to have fairly determinate meanings
does not mean that I think that my "beliefs ALONE constitute the
objective truth".

>I wish people could just relax, exchange ideas, and give other people's as
>much consideration (hence UNDERSTANDING) as they give their own!!

I'm quite relaxed. You might try being less thin-skinned. If you'd
like to talk more about the influence of `the subject' we can do that
privately, eh?

>  I didn't claim to have all the answers when I got into this, and
>and still very little is concrete, but it's been a blast to consider thoughts
>& viewpoints, and formulate new, more well-rounded ones.  All has been truly

>Class dismissed!  Peace!

Pax, Salaam, Shalom, etc.


Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                "You may _not_ touch my monkey" -Dieter


Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:01:45 -0500
From: David Schwartzberg 
Subject: rumors

OK guys...'nuf already, eh?
Does anyone really care who Neil sleeps with?
I for one, never having met him, would not care one way or the other.
This guy has to be the best drummer/lyricist I have ever seen.
All I know is that Rush's music is what brought us all here....
let's not turn this into a senseless gossip column.

On a lighter note.......Aimee Mann is from here in Boston.....She usd
to be with a band called til tuesday.  My music teacher knows her, and he
is also an avid rush quell the mystery.....
------IT'S HER LAUGH------

Last and least, I am going to Toronto for thanksgiving - anyone know of any
"RUSH" sights to see?

DAVID SCHWARTZBERG     ____/\____   Those who know what's best for us, must
SABRA @ RA.UMB.EDU     \  /  \  /   rise and save us from ourselves.  Quick
                        \/ \  \/    to judge,quick to anger, slow to under-
UNIV MASS - BOSTON      /\ /\ /\    stand; ignorance and prejudice and fear
                       /__\__/__\   walk hand in hand.        ---Neil Peart
RUSH & AEPi RULE!          \/


Subject: Neil & gay bars
Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 16:07:53 -0500
From: David Arnold 

Just needed to let off some steam here...

First of all, who cares if Neil is flaming gay or dead butch?  Would
it make a difference about how you've felt about his lyrics all these
years?  It would help make him an authority on oppression, if nothing

Secondly, since when does seeing someone in a gay bar mean they're gay?
I guess that since my wife and I went to a gay bar with two gay friends,
it means now I'm gay too?  If so, was I gay before I went in there, or
just after? :-)  Could it be possible he didn't know it was a gay bar
(some are very nice; I liked the L&F in Wash. D.C.!), or that the person
who saw him there mistakenly thought it was?  Maybe he went there because
people (fans) would leave him alone - the "average person" (if there is
such a thing) has a knee-jerk reaction to homosexuality, and wouldn't go
into a gay bar anyway.

Now, if he had picked up your friend for a wild night of sex, then I might
begin to believe it.  Other than that, I'd say it's probably mistaken
conceptions.  Besides, it doesn't matter.

Oh, Rush content.  How 'bout those boot demos from the preliminary studio
work for the new album?  I've never heard a sitar sound quite like that! :-)

David Arnold			      | Rush/Jethro Tull/Crack the Sky/Squeeze/
Inet:	      | Neville Brothers/Peter Gabriel/Queen/
Bitnet:  | Talking Heads/King Crimson/Pink Floyd/
UUCP: uunet!!davida     | Rolling Stones/BOC/ELP/Police/SRV
NeXTmail:      | Tori Amos/Suzanne Vega/To be continued

P.S.  Would it worry you more if:
        1) Neil was dating your daughter or
        2) Neil was dating your son?
  :-)  :-)  :-)  :-)


Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1992 16:33 EST
From: Mike Hutchinson 
Subject: Rush influenced bands

I definitely agree with Mike Weintraub about Dream Theatre -- they have
a heavy Rush influence but also remind me of a cross between Yes and
Metallica.  Killer vocal melodies (and a great singer), Peart influenced
drummer (check out his ride cymbal), and great compositions.

Fates Warning is another semi-obscure band with major Rush influence,
they are more of a cross between Rush and Queensryche.  Other than the
opera trained singer (Ray Alder), they have a fantastic drummer (Mark
Zonder) who takes Peart's influence and builds on it in some very
interesting ways.

btw, if the TNMS compilation CD is feasible & comes together, I volunteer
to do the cover & liner notes ... I work a lot with Macintoshes doing
layout & design work and could put one together pretty easily.

-- Mike

ps  Recent releases by the above bands
    Dream Theatre - "Images and Words" (Atco)
    Fates Warning - "Parallels" & "Perfect Symmetry" (Metal Blade)


Date: Tue, 17 Nov 92 17:10:08 EST
Subject: I've had enough, and enough is too much!

Tuesday, November 17, 1992  4:46pm

Hello people!  I hope I can speak for most of us and say ENOUGH already with
the tales of Neil being a homosexual.  I understand that this is a list for
open discussion of all Rush related topics, but I think that out of respect
for the band members and their families, the topic of their sex lives should
be left alone.  Whether or not Neil has homosexual tendencies is *not* my
concern.  My concern is that they thrive as a band and to keep those albums
(CDs) coming.  I think Neil would be terribly insulted if he read any of the
latest issues of the NMS.  If you have gay stories, why don't just say, "I
have a few gay stories about Neil.  If you want to hear it, e-mail me."  I
don't think that should be on the forum.

Rush mgr, do you think you could keep this topic out of the NMS?




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