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Subject: 06/17/93 - The National Midnight Star #698
Status: R

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List posting/followup:
Administrative matters:

(Administrative postings to the posting address will be ignored!)


          The National Midnight Star, Number 698

                  Thursday, 17 June 1993
Today's Topics:
                      So anyway ...
      Re: 06/14/93 - The National Midnight Star #696
                         mail MTV
             Non-Rush topics and Presto yak.
               Post #2 Memo to lower office
 REALLY obscure Rush reference in translated 'Appleseed'
Sexism and Rush (new perspective) (very short) (no flames)
        My last words on the following subjects...
              Yes, it's another sexism post
                   My .02 cents worth.
        06/15/93 - The National Midnight Star #697
                        New Album
                  By-Tor and the Snowdog
             Women with large chests DO exist
         Love born via Rush music...a true story.
                  bs in this newsletter
                     Musings, etc...
                 repetitive rush concerts
                     various (sorry)
                The cartoon/sexism/nudity
                     "woman drummer"
                        Force Ten
               my replies....and more stuff

Date: Thu Jun 17 15:45:57 EDT 1993
Subject: Administrivia

There was no digest for yesterday, Wednesday June 16.

And finally, I feel it's time for me to interject.  Really folks it seems a
lot of this racism discussion is getting WAY out of hand.  The S/N ratio seems
to be going in the wrong direction.  When posts are 10% Rush related (directly
or indirectly) and the rest 90% something having to do with person views
something is wrong.   So take it to email.

One last thing.  There are some interesting threads towards the bottom
of the digest (not related to sexism or racism, etc..) I wish to thank
those who contributed.

Comments?  Email me and I'll consider it.

- rush-mgr


Date: 15 Jun 93 16:59:23 EDT
From: Bruce Holtgren <70724.1622@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: So anyway ...

Hmm. So now it's good to be racist, and nobody should speak, teach or learn
slang. Ohhhhhkaaaay ...

And I thought it was going to be a slow, dull summer without the *.edu
folks. The arguments about Neil's sexual preference now seem almost quaint.




Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 18:06:23 PDT
From: "Darren Kumasawa" 
Subject: Re: 06/14/93 - The National Midnight Star #696

>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1993 21:14:37 -0700 (MST)
>From: Guy Kenneth 
>Subject: "What's Wrong With Being Sexy?"
>Was-sup boyz and girrrls?
>	Rush isn't sexist? This is the band who write songs like "Working
>Man" "Digital Man" "New World Man" etc. And "the _men_ who hold high
>places..."                                    =8-P
>	But who cares, anyway?

Actually, the examples you give are not sexist, they are just politically
incorrect by today's standards.  There *is* a difference.  But, like you said,
who really cares, anyway.  :)

>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 93 12:47:12 -0400
>From: atd@po.CWRU.Edu (Aron T. Drake)
>Subject: More Red Tide
>	Also, I made a comment about the whole barchetta thing.  Well it
>seems that Maserati (sp?) *and* Ferrrari are going to produce them,
>barchetta being a car class.

I once saw a 1941 Ferrari "Red Barchetta" in a car museum in Reno, Nevada.
It was way cool.

>Date: 14 Jun 1993 12:22:10 -0400 (EDT)
>From: (The Sun Dog)
>Subject: Must be the heat.....these people are crazy!
>Somehow I get the feeling that the order of the world is falling apart
>when one generation can't talk to another due to the language barrier...
>I've seen grandparents unable to talk to their grandchildren because the
>grandkids speak in slang and are unable to express themselves articulately
>in any semblance of English.  Don't take this as a flame, 'cause it's not
>meant to be one.  My point is that when slang such is this becomes accepted
>as "normal" English, kids start having trouble expressing themselves
>intelligently.  Okay?  (*grin*).

Actually, the problem is not that kids use slang -- the problem is that
different generations use different sets of slang.  One of the properties of
slang is that it is constantly evolving and splitting off into new tangents.
There was just as much slang around in my grandparents' day as there is now.
However, there are very few words in common between those two sets of slang.
It's hard for people to keep up with all the changes in slang.

>>So what does this have to do with Rush? Everything. No English
>>speaker alive today, native or otherwise, can fail to benefit
>>from the priceless contributions that black people have made to
>>the language - and, even moreso, to popular music. Rush, and all
>>of us, owe the speakers (and, yes, rappers) of black English a
>>tremendous debt. Neither they, nor the words they use, have ever
>>been "junk."
>Well, I think that I could live a normal life if "soul speak" had never
>been invented....I would hardly say that rappers have advanced the English
>language with their often homophobic, racist, crime-littered verse.  Just
>my feelings, again no flame intended.  Yo mama indeed. (*grin*)

A person can only benefit from slang if it helps him or her communicate
with another person.  Personally, I use a lot of slang because it is fun.
However, there I have never *needed* to communicate with slang, so I have
never actually benefitted from using it.  However, I can imagine situations
where using slang would help me communicate with other people...

>Date: Mon, 14 Jun 93 11:59:39 CDT
>From: (Aspi Havewala)
>Subject: Sexism and Rush: an observation
>	Rush's lyrics may not (or may) be overtly sexist, IMHO they do think
>in terms of strongly typecast gender roles (atleast their songwriting reflects
>that: check out _War Paint_ on _Presto_). IMHO Part II, that makes them
>sexist. Not misogynist, mind you (this comment for all impatient potential
>flamers), but sexist. It is this one singular thing that convinced me
>Rush was not really created by God on the eleventh day with a delayed

I think that Neil is commenting on society's gender roles in the lyrics
of "War Paint".  I don't think that song actually endorses those gender roles.
Compare this song to "Vital Signs", for example, and you can definitely notice
a difference in the style that Neil uses.  In "War Paint", he is describing the
way people act, and in "Vital Signs" he is providing his opinions of how people
should act.  I hope you can see this too and change your mind about Rush being


Darren Kumasawa
Macintosh Tools Development
Oracle Corporation


Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 20:03:58 -0500
Subject: mail MTV

  I suggest that all of us send the MTV people some mail(I mean a lot!!!)
to get there attention about the lack of RUSH time on MTV...

       Fernando Lombardo
 Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana



Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 22:16:27 -0400
From: jaegard@THUNDER.LakeheadU.CA
Subject: Non-Rush topics and Presto yak.

It seems to me that a lot of the mailing list's bandwidth is being
wasted with non-Rush stuff.  The subjects we've chosen are certainly
significant...subjects like what constitutes proper English and just how
sexist our favourite band happens to be, but the discussion seems to have
moved away from the three guys and their inflatable bunnies { ooh!  vinyl
bestiality  ;^>  }  Maybe these debates should be taken to email where
their worthy discussion may proceed unfettered.

{ Is "unfettered" proper English?  Wait, wait, please email the response!  }

Now, so that I don't seem like a hypocrite....

I don't know why, but I've never been able to get into Presto.
Why doesn't everybody try to convince me just how cool it really is?


Date: 15 Jun 93 22:45:46 EDT
From: "Haplo Peart \"RushFan(Tm)" <71603.3600@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Post #2 Memo to lower office

Hey posting the MTV request letter again, have some signitures that are in
send more get more lets go can't fight the fight, witout the fire.

Hy Fellow e(M)pty(TV) Haters, and RushFans(Tm),

Today the long awaited Sample Letter to MTV/VH-1<From: Orchestral Bloodbath 
Subject: REALLY obscure Rush reference in translated 'Appleseed'

Here's my entry into the most obscure Rush reference:

For readers of Japanese comics, the English translation of the 'Appleseed'
book four manga has just been released by Dark Horse Comics.  In the
Epilogue, the two main characters, Deunan and her lover Briareros, are
sharing in an expensive bottle of wine they charged as an expense to their
employeer.  The date on the wine was 2112.

Obscure, eh?  :)

MMc - Matthew McGarity


Date: Tue, 15 Jun 93 22:33:07 CDT
From: (David Drum)
Subject: Sexism and Rush (new perspective) (very short) (no flames)

Hey y'all -

When you get tired of arguing about the caricature of the female, I
just thought you might like to move over to discussing the lyrics
from the first album.  Fresh material, you know.


David K. Drum (ignore From: line)


Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 23:43:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mike Smith 
Subject: My last words on the following subjects...

1. English

   At what point did I say I was perfect? I've recieved about 10 letters
now, not including postings in the NMS correcting various spelling and
grammatical errors in my posting. I didn't sit down to write it with the
thought in mind, "I'm writing something very serious and important here,
so I'd better make sure everything's correct." I wrote it very informally,
at 4am EDT. I wanted to make a lot of points, and the letter rambled on.
The main point seems to have evaded the majority of the readers of this
mailing. I thank the few who were able to get out of it, what I was trying
to suggest. That being "Let it go for God's sake and discuss RUSH". The
letter which started this entire thread was nothing more than an
afterthought, not even the main body of the letter I'd submitted. Yet
nobody addressed the actual letter, which did deal with Rush, and the NMS
itself in particular. It served only to give you MORE things to ramble
about that are of no importance. The ONLY point to what I said in that
afterthought was that the person who didn't know what "homeboy" meant,
need not worry about it, because it was garbage (i.e. SLANG). I just
happen to use the words "garbage english" instead of slang sometimes. I
don't deny using a fair amount of it myself. Nor have I ever tried to say
I was perfect, and don't make spelling or grammatical errors. Those who
felt the need to point them out, are rather immature, and seem to me to be
adopting an attitude of "Neyh! See, you screwed up too, you're not
perfect!" Never said I was friends!

2. Racism

   I had thought I'd explained myself clearly, I see it needs further
explanation. Racism is NOT bigotry, or prejudism. Look the words up, yes
they're part of the "language". The dictionary will ......

   [ Blah blah blah.. LOOK people this has NOTHING to do with Rush, your
     personal interpretation of racism is that, take this #$^@#$# stuff to 
     email.  Apparently you already have as I'm starting to get email
     from people who are complaining about your flames with them in email.
     Keep this stuff of the digest.  Thank you..        :rush-mgr ]


   Once again I'm going to come around to the point of the original
posting, the subsequent responses, and this final posting. The topic of
this newsletter (I guess that's what it is, mailing list doesn't seem to
sound right). Is RUSH. And some of you might think that it's cool to sit
around and bash each other over the head about the stupidest little minute
detail. There are however those of us who are sick of reading it. If
that's what it's come to, if there is so little about Rush left to be
discussed, even with the forthcoming new album... Then perhaps it's time
to close down the newsletter, and save the airways for something else? I
don't know about anyone else, but aside from a very few segments from the
NMS, I could do without the whole thing. 

   [ The address to unsubscribe is listed freely for everyone who wishes.
     It's true that the digest gets kinda dull once and again but that's
     what happens when the band's not on tour or there's not much news
     really.  Can we spell rehash?                       :rush-mgr ]

The FAQ is interesting, and some
people have something interesting to say, but by and large, it's all been
nonsense. I'd furthermore like to add this, if you MUST respond to this,
send me mail directly, don't add to the already ludicrous amount of
worthless chatter in the newsletter with more nonsense about this subject.
If you do, I will not respond to it, and more than likely, I'll just
cancel the newsletter. It's boring people! And let's think about this,
what if one or all of the members of Rush are reading this? How do you
suppose they're going to feel, seeing that we can't find enough
interesting things about their music to talk about, that we have to resort
to a 2 week long fiasco about the word "homeboy".

   [ I'm sure if they did read, they would realize that there are some
     beneficial rewards to having a mailing list.  It's not just all the
     mentality of "get a life" and discussing Neil's watch.  The ftp area on in the special directory is just one example.  :rush-mgr ]

   Once again, if you must respond to this, please send your flames and
insults, spelling and grammar corrections, and Aunt Mary's leftover
nut-logs to me directly at ( I'll be sure to give them
the attention they deserve. And I'm certain the readers of the NMS will be
glad you didn't add to the stupid rantings.

Have a nice day (Or don't, see if I care!)
-M. Smith (
21st Century Ltd.
215-630-9477 (6666666)
(Feel free to leave voice-hate mail too!)

Oh and by the way, if you feel up to it, you can feel free to burn a cross
on my front lawn too! Just for kicks!

----------------------------[THE EVER LOVIN' END!]---------------------------


Date: 16 Jun 93 01:24:07 EDT
From: Bruce Holtgren <70724.1622@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Yes, it's another sexism post

For what it's worth, here's another vote from a man who agrees
that the "Tom Sawyer" cartoon-woman is sexist. My reaction when
seeing it has always been to just laugh - it's clearly intended
to be funny, and I wouldn't think of cheering such a thing. But
despite the offensive nature of the cartoon, neither this nor any
of the other examples raised are anything nearly serious enough
to convince me that Rush is a sexist outfit overall.

In a no doubt useless attempt to wind this thread down, I offer
the following as a tentative resolution of this matter:

Of the main arguments advanced so far, ALL are correct: Yes, the
cartoon is sexist. But no, it is hardly a very significant
example of the problem. (Certainly not enough to make me want to
drop TNMS or (horrors!) my allegiance to Rush.) And yes, sexism
is a significant issue, particularly in rock music, and is
a perfectly valid concern to discuss in this digest. (TNMS, if
anything, is generally short on substance - sometimes to its
credit, sometimes not. :) ).

Thanks to all who have sounded off on this. I've been enjoying



Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 05:23:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: My .02 cents worth.

          I guess I will never ceased to be amazed at what some people will
call sexist or racist.  This stuff is getting pretty boring.  This is not
meant to flame anyone, cuz I'm not interested in wasting time on flames.
But come on people.  Get a life.  You know, all this waisting of good NMS
space with indescriminant references to Rush be sexist or racist with any
of their material is about as off the wall as some of the pusillanimous
idiots out there who have tried in the past to accuse RUSH of being satanic.
Once again, as Neil put it, "people are good at seeing exactly what they want
to see".  Lets at least try to view things within their respective context
before we even try to assign a title such as sexist or racist.  Trying to
claim that reference to a drummer being "female", is a
Neil's reference to (female) drummer a sexist remark is about as accurate
as calling the song 2112 satanic.  They are both classical examples of
something taken out of its original context and used as a pretext for
something completely different than the original intent.  Sorry about the
long windedness of these sentences, but it is true.  These remarks going
back and forth about some of the content of Rush material being sexist or
racist have just as much of the lack of substance and even honest objective
interpretational conviction, as the idiots out there who dishonestly tried
to say Rush was satanic.  I am not going to go into definitions here even
though these unsubstantial claims out there are using their own home made
definitions for what they want to term sexist or racist.
But come on folks.
Things do have a specifice meaning if kept in their own respective context.
Oh well,  probably wasted my time.  Just hate to see perfectly good RUSH
space be subjected to such misinterpretation and lack of true stimulating
RUSH content.

Oh bye the way.   What was the name of that Internet address for Neil Peart 
again.  One of the best posts I've seen in a while.

                  (A hard core Christian Rush Fan)



Date: 15 Jun 1993 21:35:11 -0400
Subject: 06/15/93 - The National Midnight Star #697

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
>And to be quite literal it's not any "Black" word at all, it originates
>from Spanish "Homme", or "hombre", and it does mean FRIEND. The

>M. Smith

     Hi everyone,

     I'm new to the list (a week since I subscribed), and have avoided
     to get into this 'Homeboy' thread -in fact, I don't consider it
     a Rush-related subject, which is *in theory* the original purpose
     of this list-.

     Just to put my two cents, I'd like to point out something: since
     I was born and live in Barcelona, and my mother languages are
     Catalan and Spanish, I think I have the authority to make this

     - 'Hombre' is a spanish word that means 'man', NOT 'friend'.
       the correct spanish word for 'friend' is 'amigo'.

     - 'Homme' is french, and has the same meaning as 'hombre': 'man'

     - About whether 'homeboy' is a correct english word or not, I
       can't possibly be sure; but wasn't there a movie called
       'Homeboy' (Boxing stuff, with Mickey Rourke)?

                                          (Trying to do his best...)


Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 07:57:33 EDT
From: (Chris Bush)
Subject: New Album

It has become painfully obvious that there are a number of people who
actively participate on this mailing list for whom the new album couldn't
arrive soon enough.  Now with it having been pushed back a few more weeks,
into October, that only means three more weeks of these wonderful discussions.

I guess in these troubled times we are all wishing the world was a better
place.  Most people feel somewhat powerless to make a change.  So, like them
or not, these discussions (rap, sexism, etc.) are healthy.  They give people
a chance to speak their mind to a fairly large audience.  If even one person
is affected positively by the words of another, then some good has been done.
There are a lot of things in this world that I do not like, or am ignorant
about, or both.  It is my right, as it is everyone's, to like and dislike
what I choose.  It is also everyone's right to be able to speak their mind.
Whether they are speaking about black holes, black people, or whatever.  I
appreciate these discussions, as I hope most of you do.

End of sermon.

I'd still rather talk about silly meaningless things like what "1001001"
really means, etc.

   [ Here's someone still looking for Geddy's shoe size.. :)	: rush-mgr ]



Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 09:07:10 -0400
Subject: MTV!?!

That whole thing about MTV is *weird*. MTV asking the *internet* for
opinions, the same net that has 2500(0?) progressive music fans on, thousands of Rush fans, and so on, in general a
musically literate bunch of people, about MTV is practically BEGGING
for the hottest flames this side of hell. They could pour vitriol on
themselves and save us the trouble.

So let 'em have it!

Is that Adam Curry address valid?

  [ I haven't tried it, although I know the president's address is. It sends
    back a generic reply message, so whether someone will actually read it is
    unknown.							  : rush-mgr ]

Then she sat me down on a cold stone throne, carved in jade (Genesis 1974)


Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 12:13 AST
From: "If I only could,... I'd make a deal with GOD...*"
Subject: By-Tor and the Snowdog

* = @ Kate Bush, 1985
Ok, while I don't think I'd ever call By-Tor and the Snowdog a "suite", my
copy of FBN says it has 4 parts: (I) At the tobes of Hades (just what is a TOBE)
(II) Across the Styx (somewhere it says StyNx) (III) Of the battle
(IV) Epilogue.

Now, I dunno where anyone gets 2 parts or 3 if ya stretch it out of this.

Next: As you can tell, I'm new to TNMS, and at the end of the issue I just
read (didn't think to write down the #) there is a mention of Tour info.
I NEED TO KNOW THIS!!!   Can someone tell me what issue it was in, and then
I'll FTP it myself, I just _really_ don't want to have to gop through every
back issue till I find it.  Thanks.

   [ You can get the "Unofficial Tour Dates Listing of Rush" via anonymous ftp
     to (, in the rush/special directory. It's 
     called "tour.dates.060493.Z"				   : rush-mgr ]

                           Kristian Strickland,
          Saint Mary's University, Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada!   OR
      St.Francis Xavier University, Antigonish, Nova Scotia, Canada!
(All 3 are good!)
	       "For inspirational song quote, see header."


Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 11:51:07 -0400
From: (Russ Arcuri)
Subject: Women with large chests DO exist

I didn't think I would be drawn into this thread, but here goes:

>The fact that she's animated is completely irrelevant. Yes, I know the
>difference between cartoons and real life. But there was a message being
>sent here, and it was, "Looky, boys, here's a chick with really big
>(you supply the terminology)." If the clip wasn't exploitative in the
>context of the song, it certainly was gratuitous.

Anyone offended by the "Escape from Moving Pictures" video is being
ridiculous or hyper-sensitive or both.  No one would have complained if the
animated woman in the video was plain looking - with darker hair and a
not-so-prominent bustline.  But that's not how the animator decided to draw
her.  I've got news for everyone... Full figured blond women REALLY DO
exist... and that's just the type of person that the animator drew.  Do
those offended by the cartoon feel this way because you don't believe that
such women exist?

Here's a hypothetical for you.  What if the woman in the video was a
drawing of some well-known person who liked Rush?  For example, what if
Dolly Parton was a Rush fan, and she was drawn into the video?  Would you
consider the animator and/or the boyz sexist because Dolly has a large

I guess this is the point I'm trying to make.  Expecting an animator to
draw ONLY women with small bustlines is descriminatory.  It's like saying,
"Women with large chests should not be seen."  And it's ridiculous.

An individual's reaction to a picture or video is just that - an INDIVIDUAL
reaction.  A man is not sexist for preferring large-chested women to
small-chested women.  It is only his preference.  And a woman is not sexist
for preferring muscular men to skinny men.  It is only her preference.

We all have preferences, and the animator's was blond and large-chested.  If
you don't like it, don't go to Rush concerts.  But please don't label
someone a sexist because of his or her personal tastes.

All in my opinion,
Russ Arcuri


Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 09:55:39 PDT
From: (Kevin B. Fournier)
Subject: Love born via Rush music...a true story.

Howdy ya'll,

Don't be intimidated by the large size of my post...
It does have rush content you'll see below...
besides, it's summer, and there's only so much to talk about.

I can't quite remember, but I think I've been getting this digest since the
issues in the late 100's or early 200's.  Anyway, it's been a long time and
I like it very much.  As a result, I have a story to report that you might
find quite interesting and amusing (although I'm still bitter...)

On Sunday, June 12th, I Spent a wonderful afternoon rollerblading around the
downtown section of my little East-Bay, California town.  Granted, blading
is not the most mature thing in the world, and I hadn't been wearing a shirt
and I have a killer tan from the lunchtime soccer league I'm in, so I looked
somewhat like a kid, I guess.  (I'm a 25 year old theoretical physicist).
After having my butt pinched not once, but on two separate occasions
by high school girls who mistook me for a teenager, I was feeling pretty
low about my prospects of ever meeting an intellegent, professional woman
near my age.  Seriously, all the women I meet in the East Bay, if they aren't
single mothers are generally pretty much uneducated.  I guess all the bright
ones go away to school or work - and my workplace is, sadly, all male!!

Anyway, late in the evening on Sunday my landlady brought over one of her lady
biker (I mean a big ass Harley) friends who also had a tenant.  This tenant
turned out to be a gorgeous, 25 year old chemist who would be doing a summer
intership at the lab where I work.  Well, I kept my enthusiasm in check, but
I must say, she and I hit it off splendidly.  We talked alone for over an hour
about life, the universe, and everything.  In the end, I thought maybe this
old cynic could possibly be in love.  And the best thing of all,  SHE IS A
BIG RUSH FAN.  *fanfares and hoorahs!!!!* I finally met a genuine FEMALE
RUSH FAN.  At this point you can picture Mike Myers (sp?) as Wayne saying
with a manical gleam in his eye 'she will be mine, yes, she will be mine!'

To come to the point, we made a date to go see the Oakland A's play ball at
the Collesium on Tuesday, 15 June.  We got bitchin' seats 5th row behind 3rd
bass (I've never had seats that good for any of the 5 rush shows I've been to
over the last 12 years!!).  Things were going splendidly until the sixth
inning when we had finally finished laughing long enough to get back to a
serious conversation.  We were talking about past romances when she just
casually mentioned that it was only a year and a half ago that she met her
HUSBAND.  (say what?!?!!?!?!?!?)  She's been married for about 8 months and
still is not quite used to it.  Oh did she forget to mention that?  Anyway...

Well, it is one of the more memorable dates I've had, and about as successful
as any of them usually are.  Later that night we laughed about the whole thing
over cafe lattes (sp?) and agreed to go see Jurassic Park later this week.

Thanks for letting me get that off of my chest...I don't mean to turn this
(quasi)journal into a true confessions magazine, but for that breif instant,
I thought I'd found - ahh, never mind

Later ya'll,



   The coffee's not bad for Nectar of the Gods


Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 13:25:05 EDT
From: nivi@Engn.Uwindsor.Ca (NIVI BABAK)
Subject: bs in this newsletter

I am Babak Nivi a new member to this newsletter.

I do not understand what it is that you guys actually talk about.  You seem
to talk about every subject on earth except for Rush's music.  Let me remind
you that rush and any other band should mainly be appreciated for its music.
Rather than talk about their music, this is what you guys talk about

   [ As a new member I should inform you that a single (or even a few)
     readings of a digest(s) do not really represent what the NMS is all
     about.  Perhaps a look at past issues or some of the files in the ftp
     area from past digests/discussions would give you a better idea.  Like
     some things, it just takes time.  I'm sure the quality will be better
     once the tour starts or the album comes out :)        :rush-mgr ]

	2)neil peart's toilet habits

I don't mean to say that your various conversations are not fine, I mean to
say that you should appreciate Rush mainly for it's music.  It's fine to
read article about them in magazines and so on, but your emphasis should be
on their music.  After all, that is the ONLY reason that we like them.  Psycho-
analyzing Neil Peart's Modern Drummer articles is not the way to understand
and appreciate their music.

Contradictory to all that I've just said:

Yes, English is a versatile and is evolving like any other language but it is
not SLANG.  It is up to educated persons to choose how it is that they are
going to speak, to choose what grammatical constructions they are going to use,
and to accept or reject new words in the language.  There is such a thing
as Garbage English; not that there is neccesarily consensus on what that is.


Let me say as a Rush fan and a drummer that Roll the Bones is the biggest
piece of shit that rush has ever ever produced.  Of course, I would buy a
Rush/Aaron Neville team-up album; but, Roll the Bones is so much toilet paper
that I wipe my butt with it.

   [ Oh boy!  Are you gonna get it now!  Go get 'em start flaming!  List
     members with a serious need to flame please note the email address.
     Perhaps, Babak a MUCH MUCH better approach to discussion is not simply
     stating your choice for alternate toilet papers, but to say why you
     don't like RTB!!!  Just thought I should warn you.    :rush-mgr ]


From: (George J. Goslowsky)
Subject: Musings, etc...
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 15:57:09 CDT

Hail Fellow Rushians!

Just a few musings to amuse you with...

Topic 1 : To Chris Schiller - Well said!!  I like the TV analogy and I find I
feel very much as you do.  When I don't want to read another post about rap,
sexism, etc. I just skip it.

Topic 2 : To John Lee - Nice sense of humor.  I liked it.  You got me hook,
line and sinker, since when I was reading your post the last few lines were off
the screen.  So, for a second there, I couldn't believe our luck.

  As for Presto in the car; it's funny that you should mention that.  When
Presto first came out I lived in Texas and used to drive out to a friend's
house in the country on weekends (Hi Robert! :) ).  The first really good
listen I gave to Presto was on such a trip.  It was twilight on a warm, soft
summer day and I had the windows down.  It left an indelible mark in my memory.

Topic 3 : As for Presto itself, it seems, to me, that The Pass was maybe
written about someone near and dear to one of the boys.  Like maybe there was
some trouble between a parent and child.  I have children and the phrases like
'...don't turn your back on me and slam the door on me.' and '...Christ what
have you done...' are haunting.  Not being able to communicate with your child
about something troubling them and then the revelation of an action as a
consequence of that lack of communication is something that chills my blood.
Does anyone else get the feeling that this song is *very* personal?

  As I understand it, Eric Clapton wrote 'Tears In Heaven', for his son, as a
catharsis.  Do you think that Neil would do likewise?  Or would that be too
personal for him?

Topic 4 : I must be getting slow or something but I only just recently noticed
the pun on the cover of 'Permanent Waves'!!  What a gas!!  Am I the only one
who missed it?

Topic 5 : Can anyone give me a meaning to the phrase 'Can't you see/My tempera-
ture is rising/I radiate more heat than light' from the title cut off Presto?

That's all for now.  Y'all keep it coming.

C ya...

|                                         |                                    |
| George Goslowsky - Sr. Software Analyst |                                    |
| Address -  | Lonely things like nights,         |
|  Huntsville, Al bldg 30 132g            | I find, end finer with a friend    |
| Phone - 205 730 3192                    |                                    |
|                                         |                                    |


Date: Wed, 16 Jun 93 18:15:37 -0400
From: (Christopher Dean)
Subject: repetitive rush concerts

This is a reply to (Scott Silton) who made the
comment that Rush shows are the same from year to year:

You've got a good point.  Although I'm not "bored to tears" by Tom Sawyer
(an amazing song!), I think da boyz could mix it up a little bit. I mean,
they've been doing these songs for years now!  I'd LOVE to see some more
impromptu jam sessions.  In all fairness, though, the RTB tour was the most
spontaneous tour I've seen (and I've been a regular since the Signals tour).
They messed around, they jammed, and they seemed to have a great time.

Just my .02 as always,



Date: 16 Jun 93 19:15:38 GMT
From: "RAD232" 
Subject: Augh]]]


  Sorry this is not exactly Rush related, but it IS TMNS related, so
here goes:
 Sender: Activists Mailing List 
 From: Carl Dassbach 


 Most of you are probably aware of a plan to limit free use of
 INTERNET to "scientists" transmitting huge files and to start
 charging for e-mail.  Apparently, this is the result of private
 telecommunications interests putting pressure on the National
 Science Foundation.

 If this plan is realized, it will mean that the majority of the
 approximately 15 million users of INTERNET will be cut off.
 Sadly, this is occurring just when the potential of this network
 was starting to be realized.

 Something must be DONE.  We can not let private interests deprive
 us of access to INTERNET.

 I suggest that all concerned users register their protest/concern
 directly with Clinton and Gore via e-mail.  Their e-mail address
 have recently been posted and they are:


 In addition, I also suggest that we identify the office in the
 NSF which is responsible for INTERNET and register electronic
 protests with them.

 Any help or suggestions would be appreciated, especially in
 locating the e-mail address for the office in the NSF.
So, are we surprised...? Nah.....


Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 06:52:11 EST
From: Montreal Canadiens - 1993 Stanley Cup Champs! 
Subject: various (sorry)

A few various blurbs...

1.) CttH.  "And the men who hold high places..."  This is grammatically
correct.  If the subject's gender is not specified, the masculine form is
used.  A one-syllable word fits better here and "ones" is used in the next
line.  "And the people who hold high places" just doesn't flow as well.
NB.  No PC remarks here please.  Here in Germany some people use only the
feminine form when referring to many people who aren't necessarily all
female.  Works for me - it makes things a lot simpler.  Free examples
available on request.

2.) *** attempt to start a new thread alert ***  Where is the most
interesting (or least expected) place you have found Rush lyrics /
allusions / references?  I ask because yesterday I saw the refrain to
_Dreamline_ (without the source) in the men's room of the Anglistik
building here at the Freie Uni.  (Yes, I did add the author's name!)

3.) Limbaugh's given name is Rusty, I believe.  Rush is an uncommon
nickname like Geddy, if you want to look at it that way.

4.) So who would be the ideal intro person for _Tom Sawyer_?  How about
King Arthur from Monty Python's _Holy Grail_?  One, two, three, five!
Four, Sir!  FOUR!

ObHockey:  Les Canadiens win it all.  Again.  Stanley Cup #24, for those of
you keeping score at home.  GO HABS!!!  Where were the Broons?

All for now.  And if you like rap, well that's your business.  Just don't
play it too loud if we're in the same car on the S-Bahn from Ostkreuz to
Zoologischer Garten.

Jason McNamara, Osteuropa Institut, Freie Universitaet - Berlin


Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 09:02:03 -0400
From: swaminathan gangadharan 
Subject: The cartoon/sexism/nudity

Hi Rushians,

   I have'nt seen the controversial Tom Sawyer video which some of us perceive
as being sexist. But I hope that Rush do not repeat such things because it
seems so much different from the usual attitude that the guys have towards
such matters. Neil Peart himself says he deliberately avoids using topics
like love/sex  in his songs because such topics are so over used. That being the
case, using the female anatomy (even in a cartoon) is something only groups
which much less calibre and talent (IMHO) would resort to. I for one do not
expect this of Rush. So it came as a big shock to me.

   As for our feminine friends being upset about this cartoon, I perfectly
understand their feelings. It all comes down to the same question - Is nudity
(female,especially) exploitative of people ? Now, some of us might feel that
why make all this fuss about just a cartoon. But then again, the issue is the
same. There are so many groups which literally "exploit" females, writing songs
which treat women as objects, and not as human beings. And all of this stuff
is certainly not about love and using nudity and sex in that context. The same
kind of crude stuff appears in porn magazines. I don't mean to have a "holier
than thou" attitude and in fact  have enjoyed glancing through such magazines.
At the same time, I always felt guilty because it seemed exploitative and I
eventually controlled the habit.So, I think it is perfectly reasonable for
some of us to feel disappointed with Rush on this count.

    I would like to add something more, though this is strictly non Rush
content.In most countries where nudity/pornography is banned or restricted
the status of women  in soceity is worse than in places where it is'nt. In
some Islamic countries, where pornography is forbidden, women can't even
drive cars. In places like the U.S and a lot of other western countries, where
porn is tolerated, (IMHO) women are better off. I have heard from some friends
that in very liberal places like Scandinavia ( where pornography is hardly
a big deal), women are well represented in business and government. Seems like
the choice is really between nudity/exploitation and no nudity/total 
discrimination. I would like to know if any countries are exceptions to this 

Thanks for reading through.

Swami Gangadharan

Eagerly wating for "Critical Mass"


From: keb@syrinx.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Kristin Brown)
Subject: "woman drummer"
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 10:59:30 EDT

ok, i have kept quiet up to now, but.....

will you guys lighten up??!!? maybe neil mentioned that she was a woman
drummer because female drummers are not that common, and he probably
doesnt talk to too many female drummers, so it stuck in his mind??

i can think of a lot of words to describe the guys, but "sexist" isnt one
of them!!

keb (a girl!)


Date: Thu, 17 Jun 93 11:56:40 -0400
From: swaminathan gangadharan 
Subject: Force Ten

Hi Rushians,

I noticed two lines in the lyrics provided for Force Ten that don't
seem to be in the song; I am not sure though.

The lines are:

rising falling at force ten
we twist the world and ride the wind.

I tried to check by listening to Force ten both on HYF and ASOH and
could 'nt hear them on either. Can someone enlighten me on this?
I am sorry if this question has been asked before.

   [ These are said in the background and kind of hard to hear, just before
     they go into the guitar solo.				: rush-mgr ]

After reading the ongoing discussion about the sexist nature of the Tom Sawyer
cartoon, i agree with the guys/girls who say that no matter how trivial
or funny the cartoon is, there is no escaping the fact that it is
sexist and so unlike Rush. Ideally, their videos should be gender neutral and
"spiritual" as their songs have been.

There are a lot of groups which talk about love and sex. And sometimes,
most of them wilfully use words that are sexist. But in some cases, the
humor in the lyrics kind of obscures the sexism (Maybe I am in a delusion).
One such group is Jethro Tull. They talk about girls quite a bit in
their songs and their portrayal of women IMHO seems to be slightly
stereotypical. But (again, IMO) their lyrics are of very good quality
and the humor is great.Check out "Crest of a Knave" for evidence.

Thanks for reading through.

Swami Gangadharan


Date: 17 Jun 1993 12:31:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: ahung@discover (The Sun Dog)
Subject: my replies....and more stuff

>From: johnlee@sirius.UVic.CA (John  Lee)
>Quite some time ago I read in an NMS issue where somebody was trying to come
>up with the right adjectives to describe the above mentioned song.
>How about "Hauntingly powerful"?  I think that might hit pretty close to
>home, eh?  Not quite perfect, but still pretty close.

How 'bout unfriggingbelievable?  The first time that I ever heard this song
was in concert.  I just about made in my pants from the power of the song!

>From: Tracey 
>Mr. Smith, before you presume to lecture on standard White Man's English,
>I'd like to suggest that you go out and buy a good dictionary, or at
>least use a mailer with a spell checker. I simply cannot believe that
>someone who can't spell or use a comma correctly has the unmitigated
>gall to ramble on ad nauseum about "garbage words." Your post may have
>been one of the least literate I've ever seen, and that's saying something
>on this particular list.

All right, now this will be juicy....I really don't think that ad hominem
attacks will prove anything about your point.  Case in point, your attack
on Mr. Smith.  His misspellings don't negate the power of his arguement.
Neither do your ad hominem attacks.  I would suggest that you make your
point with a logical arguement and leave the ad hominem attacks for the 

>Last and least:

>>From: (The Sun Dog)

Well now, nothing like a good finger-pointing ad hominem attack to prove
your point, eh?  I'll treat you and your views with as much respect as I can.
I would appreciate it if you would accord me the same courtesy.

>Once again, living proof that some people Just Don't Get It. Is it
>not plain how "showing some busty video babe" discriminates on the
>basis of gender? When was the last time you saw a *man* objectified
>to that degree?

I believe that this is known as begging the question.  You're arguing
that "it's discrimination because it's discrimination".  All you have
drawn are conclusions without any premises.  The last time that I saw
a man objectified to this degree was this morning when I was eating
breakfast and watching tv.  I saw a Levis commercial with some half
naked guy baring his pecs while wearing Levis.  Oh, perhaps you've never
seen it because you object to the use male/female attributes to sell
a product or tell a story.

>Once again, living proof that some people Just Don't Get It. Is it
>not plain how "showing some busty video babe" discriminates on the
>basis of gender?

Also, I believe that now would be as good a time as any to clear up our
terminology so that we stand on common ground.  Sexism is discrimination based
on sex.  If two people qualify for a job and I hire the less qualified man
over the woman, then I have committed a sexist act.  Sexism is not (in my book),
the differentiation of men and women into two separate groups.  Otherwise, using
separate bathrooms and locker rooms for men and women is sexist.  Separate 
clothing styles for men and women is also sexist by this definition.  Face it, 
men and women ARE separate and very different type of animals.  You are 
telling me that it's wrong to notice that a woman is a woman and not a man.  
If that is so, then we should quit having separate locker rooms and styles of 
clothing and so forth......

If you feel that the Tom Sawyer video is exploitative, then say that.  But if 
you feel that noting the difference between men and women is wrong, then be 
ready for me to come walking into your bathroom or locker room....Eeek, what a 
thought.  By the way, I DO feel that the video is kind of gratuitous.....If 
only you'd said that in the first place, we probably could have avoided all of 
this garbage...

If you feel the need for more discussion, let's go the e-mail....It's bad enough
that we've wasted all of this space with out little discussion.  Okay?

    [ YES!!! Please make my life easier, certainly we can all see when a
     discussion leaves the realm of relevance where Rush is concerned.  Take
     your personal differences to email.  I thank you.     :rush-mgr ]

I am:

Art or

"driven on, without a moment to spend to pass an
evening with a drink and a friend" NP


Date:       Thu, 17 Jun 93 17:30:15 BST
From: "Roger G Haworth   userid " 
Subject:    Lard...

I would like to apologise for posting this completely non-Rush related note to
the NMS. I would have posted it directly to Puanani, but I can't find her

   [ If you're having trouble finding someone on the list, send me mail and I
     can usually find their address for you.			   : rush-mgr ]

Puanani, I would like to thank you for referring to British English as just
that, and not English English (if you know what I mean). In my experience the
vast majority of North Americans refer to the whole of Britain as England. I
remember one American I used to know saying that he'd been to
England. It is, of course, in Scotland.

Thanks again. You've restored my faith in humanity! By the way, do you get
'Whose Line is it Anyway' in the States now?

Catch you later


'Let us not go gently to the endless winter night'


Date: 17 Jun 1993 13:32:19 -0700 (MST)
From: "Eric Kay (303) 499-7577" 
Subject: MTV

As far as I can tell, MTV operates the way any legitimate business
should: for profit.  This means pleasing the majority of thier customers
the majority of the time.  For an example of the type of customer they
pander to, see the cartoon characters Beavis and Butt-head.  Now, why
should it be annoying that they play little or no Rush?     -Eric


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End of The National Midnight Star Number 698

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