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Subject: 10/20/93 - The National Midnight Star #788

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----------------------------------------------------------------------


          The National Midnight Star, Number 788

                Wednesday, 20 October 1993
Today's Topics:
              Rush article from Toronto Star
                       My thoughts
            Midnight Madness-the downs and ups
              Don't worry, it's a short post
               Morus Code on CP back cover
                   Dream Theater video!
                    Wat's wid the Wal?
                    Rush and politics
                  Rush not to tour UK!!!
            Cp. <-- That's the way I'm doin it
                    Midnight Insanity
            Okay, who's confused (besides me?)
          Counterparts Review from Boston Globe
                Bravado vs. Speed of Love
                 Counterparts Kicks Butt!
                criticism of CP; responses
              CPs lyrics are quite original.
                       CP is dope]
                          (none)
         Anybody Know what all this stuff means?
                  Rand, Dos Passos, etc.
                 A Counterparts Question
      OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
                Counterparts ... of course
              Checking on USA vs Canadian CD
                    Critics lighten up
----------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 19 Oct 1993 14:09:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: HARRISON@SRCL.SUNNYBROOK.UTORONTO.CA (Rod Harrison)
Subject: Rush article from Toronto Star

>From The Toronto Star, Tuesday October 19, 1993:

*****************************************************************************
Gold is the color of Rush's metal

by Peter Howell
Toronto Star

        The rock drummer on the phone is talking about dual personalities,
secret agents and his favorite Puccini opera - so it can't possibly be
anybody else but Neil Peart of Rush.
        "I think there's something holistic about it all," says one of the
brainiest guys of rock, who also pens the lyrics of the Canadian rock        
trio's songs.
        It sounds like something out of Wayne's World, but it's all about
Counterparts, the 19th album by Canada's most successful rock band.
        The disc hits record stores today, shipping gold simultaneously
in both Canada and the U.S. - 50,000 units here, 500,000 down there.        
        The album has been exploding all over radio for several days, with
lead single "Stick It Out" being listed in music industry journals as the    
second-most-added song at North American album radio stations - the highest
in the band's career.
        Counterparts will likely hit the main Billboard album chart with
similar force to 1991's Roll The Bones, which set a Canadian record by
debuting in the No. 3 slot.
        It's sales action like that, plus the trio's unmistakable sound of
Peart's drumming, Alex Lifeson's guitars and Geddy Lee's bass playing and
singing, that registers most in the minds of rock fans.
        But the 41-year-old Peart tries hard to make his listeners think,
even if he knows that Rush is appreciated more by Wayne and Garth metalheads  
than by serious Puccini scholars.
        He's got something for both types in the new song "Everyday Glory,"
which includes a line about a house where "nobody laughs and nobody sleeps."
        It works great as a rock tune - one of the best on the album - but
Peart says the inspiration came from "an opera peice I've always loved, by
Puccini, called 'Nessun dorma', which an Italian girl told me translates
as 'nobody sleeps' ... and I thought, ah, what a beautiful phrase."
        Counterparts refers to a concept Peart explores on the album about
the similarities and differences of many dualities in life, in particular  
the male/female duality, which is studied in the song "Alien Shore".
        Mile-a-minute talker Peart sprinkles his conversation with references
to such deep-thinkers as Jung and T.S. Eliot, and he explains that another
song, "Double Agent," is based on a forthcoming book by an author friend:
"It's on the secret war between the CIA and the FBI."
        Heavy stuff for a band that can fill New York's Madison Square
Gardens two nights running with devil-salute-waving rockers, as Rush did        
during its Roll The Bones tour in '91.
        "It's not preaching," says Peart, who'll be asking deep question of
Liberal leader Jean Chretien Friday in a MuchMusic pre-election special.
        "It's just saying, 'Here's something to think about, what do you
think?' I always want the invitation implicit in there."
        "So those people who think about such things, I think it's there,
and those people who don't think about them, who does it hurt?"        
        What people recognize and value most about Rush, Peart ventures, is
the attention to detail the band, whether it's getting Peart's hi-hat to        
sound just right or making sure favorite artist Hugh Syme's latest cover art
creation is appropriately cosmic.
        "Everything like that we take the time and trouble with," Peart says.
"It altogether adds up to an image of quality: 'Care has been taken here.'
That's the message that people receive."
        Rush will start touring in January, and 1994 marks 20 years Peart,
Lifeson and Lee have been playing together - although Lifeson and Lee, who
both turned 40 this past summer, started Rush in '69 in their Willowdale
home basements with original drummer John Rutsey.
        "I'm still the new guy," Peart jokes.
        Expect something special in the new year to mark the 20th aniversary,
Peart hints.
        "We'd like to make something of it, because I think we're probably
the only band in the world with the same guys, after 20 years. I don't think  
there's anybody who's even close, with the same members."
        "I think we'll pay that due tribute."

****************************************************************************

Transcribed by Rod Harrison
Please be patient with any typos and I take no responsibility for mistakes.

Rod Harrison
(harrison@srcl.sunnybrook.utoronto.ca
sysrod@srcl.sunnybrook.utoronto.ca
rodney.harrison@canrem.com)
Dept. Medical Physics Sunnybrook Health Science Centre
University of Toronto Toronto, Ontario


----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 14:06:35 EDT
From: rsw2@Lehigh.EDU (ROB WAGNER)
Subject: My thoughts

Hey,

Don't get me wrong, I think it was REALLY cool that the new album got
digitized and we could hear it three weeks ago...

>...but after I listened to it on my computer a few times, I decided it sucked
and that I probably wouldn't even buy it.  But the excitement of October 19th
hit me, and I went and got it today...

>...and this album is GREAT!  I mean, I don't think it's the best stuff they've
ever done, but it's a terrific album.  Those .au files were so slow that the
music just didn't sound right.  Hearing it the way it should be is sooooo much
better!

Wow.  I'm having a great day now!

And man, I got a request for "The Trees" while doing my radio show Sunday
night.  And of course, I hadn't brought it to the studio...and that was the
first time I ever got a request for Rush...damn!

-- Rob

----------------------------------------------------------

From: LAUGHREN DENNIS P 
Subject: Midnight Madness-the downs and ups
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 12:40:32 -0600 (MDT)

Midnight.....I feel the rain...coming down..

I start the engine and pull out of the driveway, knowing tonight will
be memorable in my scrapbook of memories from my time listening
to Rush. I have just completed the next-to-last section of
Atlas Shrugged, and notice my watch has stopped. I shake my wrist to
start it moving again, and head toward's Boulder's 'Hill' district.
As I pull in to the parking structure, I look down at my odometer.
It reads 00000.0. The second time it has done this in this car's time
on earth. I think some silly things like '300000 miles, 3 members of
Rush'. Shaking off my absence of deep thought, I head up the street
toward Albums on the Hill, which is Packed with Pearl Jammers. I am
handed a number by an employee. I tell him, "But i'm here for Rush!"
With a sad expression on his face, he tells me there is no way I will
reach the front of the line in time to get a copy.
  My body slumps as I walk up the stairs to the street, where I
notice another store is also premiereing (sp?) PJ. I am told
"maybe", so i wait. When I arrive at the counter, I am handed a pearl
Jam cd. "15.99", he says. I say, "I'm here for Rush." He studies me
for a moment, reaches slowly down into the 'other' bin, and lightly
slides the black and blue glittering package across the counter.
Time Stands Still.

True story. Hope you all feel the magic as I have. -D.L.

 _____                            ____     rrrr u  u ssss h  h
|     |  COUNTER                 |    |    r    u  u s    h  h laughren@spot
|     |_____________________     |----|    r    u  u ssss hhhh .colorado.edu
|~~~~~|  |  |  |  |  |  |  ||    |    |    r    u  u    s h  h
|     |  |  |  |  |  |  |  || -- |    | -- r    uuuu ssss h  h
|_____|  |  |  |  |  |  |  ||    |----|
|     |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~     |    |   "Where would you rather be?
|_____|  PARTS                   |____|     Anywhere, anywhere but here.."

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 13:44:03 -0500
From: c512052@monad.missouri.edu
Subject: Don't worry, it's a short post

Rushians,

1) I heard the .aulbum.
2) I heard the single on the radio.
3) I heard the interview on the 14th.
4) I have the album (courtesy midnight madness).
5) I have already learned all the lyrics.

For all of you who don't like some/all of the album, I can only say:

RUSH CAN DO NO WRONG

Regards,

David

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 15:29:54 -500 (EDT)
From: "Perry R. Fatuova" 
Subject: Morus Code on CP back cover

Amazing just amazing...CP rules! Between Sun and Moon definately my
favorate..
But anyway, there was a bunch of talk about "Remember the Dead" in the
RTB tour Book in morus code.

Is that Morus code on the back cover...If so what does it say.

Please post translation ( if there is one)
Thanks

OUT
-=PERRY=-

----------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Dream Theater video!
From: mcorso@mindvox.phantom.com (Mike Corso)
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 15:54:54 EDT

Just a note to break up the CP overflow...
The Dream Theater concert video is coming out on November 16!!  It's
called "Images & Words Live In Tokyo".  It's going to be 90 minutes and
will include footage shot by the band.  Tracks include:  UNDER A GLASS
MOON, WAIT FOR SLEEP, SURROUNDED, THE YTSEJAM, TO LIVE FOREVER, A FORTUNE
IN LIES, TAKE THE TIME, and PULL ME UNDER.  Yes!

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 16:38:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: ASILVERM@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Subject: Wat's wid the Wal?

Hi folks!

	This is my first post in a while, I've got a quick question and then
I'll give my thoughts on the new disc.  I remember people saying that Geddy
used a Fender on this, but in the liner notes they thank Wal.  Anybody know
for sure?  I haven't listened closely enough to pick out the difference yet
and I'm too lazy.
	The one song that really hit me off CP is. . .Leave That Thing Alone!
I (and others) thought that Where's My Thing sounded like it was a song that
was missing the vocals, but the new one really comes across as a complete
piece of music.  My drummer wasn't too impressed with the drumming though, he
liked it on WMT better, but LTTA is a very cool work overall.
	I'm in total agreement with those who wonder where the metaphors went
in the lyrics!  The first verse of Nobody's Hero, while not such bad song
lyrics in and of themselves, is something of an extreme as far as Neil's
writing goes.  Way too straightforward for me though.  Same with some of the
other tunes, although not as much as that one verse.
	Does anybody else think the spoken parts of Double Agent sound a lot
like Frank Zappa?  That's definitely one of my favorite songs here too.
	Everyday Glory(I think, if it's the last song on the disc which isn't
in front of me now) sounds WAY too much like old U2!!!  (I am NOT a U2 fan,
although I don't mind some of their older stuff.  Flame if you like, but I
must add that The Edge, while not a BAD player, is probably the most overrated
guitarist I have ever heard!)  It's an OK song though.
	My opinion is that this disc is much closer stylistically to Rush(the
first album!) than any other that they've done. . . Kinda like if they had
brought back John Rutsey to do Power Windows!!! :)
	To sum up, this is the first Rush album since at least Power Windows,
maybe Moving Pictures, that I have at least liked every song on first listen.
Two improvements I'd like to see for the next one(already???) are:  A bit
jazzier drumming, the drumming here is a bit too grungy-style for my taste, and
also the vocals are getting a bit too grungy-whiny.  I know we won't be hearing
any more Anthem-style screeching, but it's certainly possible to sing in a low
register without getting real whiny.  (re:  Jim Morrison, Fish, Corey Glover
etc.)
	In semi-unrelated news, last night I also picked up a few other albums
that may interest some of youse guys & gals:  Ozric Tentacles' 1991 Strangitude,
which lies somewhere between Phish and Tales From Topographic Oceans, very
cool stuff!  Also, if you like Metal, the new Damn The Machine and the BRAND
SPANKIN' NEW METAL CHURCH (Yahoo!  And I thought they were dead. . .) are both 
mighty tasty treats.  And don't forget the new Thought Industry which comes 
out in one week!

				Party on,

				Aaron
				ASILVERM@UMIAMI

P.S.  Hockey Season is back. . .AND SO IS CAM NEELY!!! AH HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!
And around the league. . .Go Whalers!  Go Panthers!  Yay.

----------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 19 Oct 1993 16:38:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: HARRISON@SRCL.SUNNYBROOK.UTORONTO.CA (Rod Harrison)
Subject: Rush and politics

Excuse me if this has already been brought up (I seem to be missing the
last few digest - don't worry rush-mgr the problem seems to be on my end).
One of the pictures in the Counterparts insert is of a Fleur-de-Lis
(Quebec symbol) on top of a maple leaf (Canada symbol). Is this a comment
that Quebec is part of Canada? Is Rush taking a nationalist stand?
    A recent article in the Toronto Star (Tues. Oct. 19) stated that on
Friday there will be some sort of discussion between Neil Peart and Jean
Chretien (leader of the Liberal party who will likely be the next Prime
Minister of Canada starting Oct. 25) on MuchMusic. Rush is usually
outspoken about social issues but to my knowledge that has never before
included direct political associations/statements.
   For those interested I will tape this MM discussion and report any
discussion with Neil Peart.

Rod Harrison
(harrison@srcl.sunnybrook.utoronto.ca)
Sunnybrook Health Science Centre
University of Toronto
Toronto, Ontario

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: 19 Oct 93 15:56:53 EDT
From: robert fleming <100063.2154@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Rush not to tour UK!!!

Devastating news ! - I have been informed that RUSH WILL NOT BE TOURING THE UK 
or Europe with Counterparts.  I have been told this by Bob Roper on 
Compuserve's Rocknet forum.  I believe Bob is connected with the band through 
SRO.  He told people on there of the band's plans to tour the US. When I asked 
when they would be coming to the UK he said they had no plans to because a 
decision has been made to only come to the UK and Europe with every 2nd album.  
That could mean no Rush live gigs here for another 2 or more years!!!!  He said
that they may change their minds if the album is hugely successful but that
a change of mind was very unlikely.

Ok, UK Rush fans lets unite about this! I propose to write or fax the
appropriate Rush people.  What I suggest is a petition to show strength of
feeling. TMNS UK fans seems a good place to begin this. I am happy to
coordinate this.  For those who want to, please let me have your name (and
address if possible, or if you don't want to give the full address then
street and city etc.) together with a _short_ message or somment if you
like. Either send a short message about this to TMNS or to me on compuserve
as email (my ID is 100063,2154). The sooner we can get somthing decent together 
the better because I bet complete tour date details for the US etc have not 
yet been set.  I will issue a similar message in Rocknet.

Lets try and change this folks!

Robert

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 18:04:09 -0230 (NDT)
From: Darryl Coombs 
Subject: Cp. <-- That's the way I'm doin it

OK, so who's going to be the first to decipher and interpret all the
binary on the back of the booklet for us?  Not Me! :-)
The inside of the booklet is quite cool and,as expected, there are threes
implied everywhere.

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 16:46:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: ASILVERM@umiami.ir.miami.edu
Subject: Midnight Insanity

So I go to my local Sound Warehouse, the only place open past Midnight
yesterday, and there are about 100 teenagers there.  Every one of them gets the
new Pearl Jam.  None of them get the new Rush.  I seemed to be the only person
there for it!  (I didn't get the Pearl Jam, I wonder if it's any good. . .)
The local rock station is there doing a live feed.  They start playing a bunch
of Rush songs, it seemed like they were trying to see if there would be any
crowd reaction. . .and there was.  I started tapping my foot.  :)

					Oh well,

					Aaron
					ASILVERM@UMIAMI

P.S.  Did I mention God Bourque?  Joe Juneau?  And of course Geoff Sanderson. 

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 14:16:01 PDT
From: rking@scopus.com (Robyn King-Nitschke)
Subject: Okay, who's confused (besides me?)

This will probably be answered by the time my post
makes it to TNMS, but just in case it isn't--

I be confused!

On the radio special, the discussion of Neil's
collaboration with Pye Dubois referred to
"The Speed of Love." I don't have the interview
handy right now, so I can't remember if Neil actually
*said* that was the song they collaborated on, but
at any rate, the album liner notes say, and I
quote:

Between Sun and Moon
Music by Lee and Lifeson/Lyrics by Peart and Dubois

The Speed of Love
Music by Lee and Lifeson/Lyrics by Peart

So what gives? Did Neil and Pye collaborate on BS&M,
or SoL? Who goofed?

My guess (remembering that I don't have the interview
in front of me) is that they made a mistake putting
the interview together. Can anyone who has the
text handy verify this--does Neil ever actually
*say* SoL is the collaboration, or does he just talk
about *doing* one?

(Seeing as how people have been talking about Dubois'
>...um...somewhat less than inspired lyrics (at least
when compared to Neil), that might explain who was
responsible for all those "ah, yes to yes"es! :-)
(I like the song a *lot*, though...)

Hoping someone can clear this up,
--Rat

"I'll be around
If you don't let me down
Too far..."	--NP

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 15:00:36 EST
From: Goldman@ldybug.ci.net (Amy Goldman)
Subject: Counterparts Review from Boston Globe

Boston Globe, Album Review, Tuesday, October 19, 1993



Rush:  Challenging the mind as rock's senior statesmen

by Steve Morse					RUSH
					    COUNTERPARTS
					  ATLANTIC ANTHEM

	Canadian power-trio Rush scraped for years to get to the top
of the hard-rock field.  Now that the group is there, Rush deserves
credit for not slipping into the arena-rock smugness of many of their
peers.  If anything, the band appears increasingly comfortable with the
role of senior statesmen:  Witness the new album, "Counterparts," due
in stores today.

	Unlike many hard-rockers who are still trying to satisfy their
egos and libidos, Rush writes new songs that attack racism and sexism
("Alien Shore"), sympathize with a friend who died of AIDS ("Nobody's
Hero"), defend a woman concerned with male physical abuse ("Cold Fire")
and warn about putting up with corporate and societal lies ("Stick It
Out").

	Singer Geddy Lee, once a shrieky yowler who's now among the
most improved vocalists in rock, offers this statesmanlike observation
in the guitar-driven "Cut to the Chase":

	I'm old enough not to care too much
	About what you think of me
	But I'm young enough to remember the future
	And the way things ought to be

	Amazingly enough, Rush will celebrate its 20th anniversary next
year.  A tour is planned to start in January (no word yet on a local
date), but, for the moment, this album will have to suffice.  And
suffice it does with a jarringly virtuosic, socially conscious batch of
songs that should heighten a respect cemented in 1991 with the disc,
"Roll the Bones," followed by a sold-out Worcester Centrum show.

	Rush may be too preachy for some listeners, and too unmelodic
for others (guitarist Alex Lifeson can still play with dental-drill
relentlessness), but this album marks a major step forward.  The former
Rush sin of bombast creeps into the new track "The Speed of Love"
("nothing changes faster than the speed of love," Lee sings), but most
songs challenge the mind, even as they're ripping through the brain
with monster guitar riffs and the big-beat, arena-size drum sounds of
Neil Peart.

	Befitting Rush's role as cerebral rock philosophers, the song
"Animate" pays tribute to psychologist Carl Jung, notably Jung's thesis
of merging the anima (feminine side) and animus (masculine side).  How
many hard-rock bands delve this deep?  And a bright overlay of optimism
coats the last track, "Everyday Glory":  "If the future's looking dark,
we're the ones who have to shine."  The band keeps that promise here.
--

Amy Goldman                     "If you want it, you've got it,
goldman@ldybug.ci.net            you've just got to believe,
(508) 842-3854                   believe in yourself "

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 17:32:09 -0400
From: harrison@fim5.fim.wpafb.af.mil (Jay Harrison)
Subject: Bravado vs. Speed of Love

Hi busy listeners....

   I just noticed something very interesting.  Listen to the first minute
or so of Bravado then the beginning of Speed of Love and tell me if
they don't at least sound like they are from the same album or something.
I don't know if it's the time or the key, but they sound A LOT a like.

   Just an observation....

+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Jay Harrison                              harrison@fim.wpafb.af.mil       |
|			                             (129.48.33.11)         |
|   "You may be Right, It's all a waste of time                             |
|        I guess that's just a chance I'm prepared to take                  |
|        A Danger I'm prepared to face, Cut to the chase" -  Peart          |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+

----------------------------------------------------------

From: kyoung@ebs330.eb.uah.edu (Kris Young (ISE))
Subject: Counterparts Kicks Butt!
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 16:27:29 -0500 (CDT)

Well, I have been listening to _Counterparts_ in all its DDD glory
for about a day now, I have the following to say about it:

This album rules!!!!!

Now for the objective review:
	I was _very_ impressed with this album.  After listening to the album
in increments of quality (the sound files, the radio special, and now the CD),
I was absolutely blown away by the production.  Geddy and Co. were right on the
money when they were searching for the "in your face", emotive, energetic
production.  This album is the best produced RUSH album I have ever heard.
Everything (Geddy's funky bass lines, Alex's adrenaline pumping solos, Neil's
expert fills, and Ged's emotional voice) is right there in the mix...  it all
combines to produce pure energy (perhaps we should experiment in this direction
to solve energy conservation problems) ;).  This is why they are called RUSH.

Geddy has really seemed to master his voice in this album.  From my listening
perch, the vocals are PERFECT.  From the perfect combination of speaking and
singing in "Double Agent" to the emotional gymnastics of "Between Sun and Moon".

As for Neil's lyrics, they are undoubtedly right on the money.  While at first
(before I heard the music) my mind couldn't comprehend how the lyrics could
work, I must say they work wonders.  These lyrics combine the best of emotional
and rational feelings.  This is the "Cygnus" of albums about male/female
relationships, in my opinion.  While some of the lyrics seem awkward on paper,
when applied to music they become vibrant.  "Double Agent" gets right into the
human psyche more effectively than Dostoevsky or Freud ever could.  "Nobody's
Hero" has the PERFECT mixture of emotion and reason (see Cygnus above).  "Alien
Shore" truly captures the delicate balance of joy and struggle in the love
relationship (sexual, or otherwise).  This theme reminds me of "Different
Strings" in a way.
	"You and I, we are strangers by one chromosome
	Slave to the hormone, body and soul
	In a struggle to be happy and free
	Swimming in a primitive sea" - "Alien Shore"
This song has that effective imagery, brought forth in a way only Neil can.
Simply amazing!

Geddy's bass on this album truly captures my soul.  As I lay in my dorm room,
with my walls shaking, I realized the proportions of this bass (Hear "Animate",
"Alien Shore", and "Cut To the Chase").  This sound is just HUGE!  Funky, too.
This is the kind of bass that brought my attention to _Hold Your Fire_, but
with Alex playing with the intensity he does on Cp, the effect is EXPLOSIVE!

And for all of you thinking that I am a subjective RUSH worshiper, I'd have to
say that after this album, I am forced to be.  I just can't find anything to
criticize in this album.  EVERY SONG just rubbed me the right way...  I am in
heaven.  This is the album I've been waiting for!

Kris
PS-  Did anybody noticed that the song Pye DuBois was credited with in the
liners was "Between Sun and Moon", rather than "Speed of Love" (the one talked
about on the Cp Premiere Special?  Typo or no?

>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
|"Freeze this moment - a little bit longer - make each sensation            |
|      a little bit stronger - experience slips away...  "    - RUSH, HYF   |
|___________________________________________________________________________|
| Kristopher L. Young     kyoung@ebs330.eb.uah.edu     kyoung@nyx.cs.du.edu |
|     University of Alabama in Huntsville --    Electrical Engineering      |
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 18:14:21 -0500
From: Jeremy Todd Strzynski  
Subject: criticism of CP; responses

to greg:
(from #785):
i wholeheartedly agree.  i think too many people here (myself at times 
included) tend to say stuff like "This is unbelievably amazing!" or "This sucks
the sweat off a dead man's balls." (sorry if that offends you) without
bothering to say why.  i liked your pros and cons--if more people did stuff
like that, we'd all understand better both the strengths and limitations of the
new album.  personally, i think CP is their best album since MP.  reasons:

1)  it grabbed me immdeiately, which is something Rush albums rarely do (it
    was two years before i liked P/G)
2)  i like the three-piece style better than the keyboard-heavy material.  yes,
    there are keys in there, but they are in the background further than they
    have been recently.
3)  there is a wide variety of music on the album, from the repeated-riffs of
    SIO to the acoustic intro to NH to psycho-lunatic ramblings of DA.  albums
    like RTB, PoW, and HYF were a bit too homogeneous for my tastes.

you may disagree, which is fine, given that people have different tastes.  if
you like keyboards this album won't be your favorites.  if you like or don't
like a bunch of things this album won't be your favorite.  but please, fellow
NMS readers, given the recent sizes of the digests, if you like or don't like
CP and want to tell us so, tell us WHY as well, and in a way which doesn't
imply those who disagree with you are either wrong or mindless followers of
the band.

to dale (also from #785):
on whose album does "Nobody's Hero" belong?  last i checked Rush both wrote
and performed on the song.

jeremy

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 19:36:24 -0400
From: swaminathan gangadharan 
Subject: CPs lyrics are quite original.

Hi Rush-fans,

I wish to offer my views on the lyrical content of CP, now that a few NMSers
seem to think it does'nt live up to the standards set by previous albums.
Firstly, about the line "Ah Ah to Yes, Yes to Yes" and so on. Agreed, it is not
very thought provoking. But they are writing music here, not prose. A few
lines added to make the song more melodic/listenable does not (IMHO) make
the whole song lyrically sub-standard.

The concept of male-female relationships and the masuclinity-feminity aspect
of man are subjects that NP has not written much about before CP. That he
has chosen to explore these areas of human nature in an intelligent manner
in itself makes CP original, if not outstanding. How many rock lyricists
can write a song like "Animate". I confess the lyrics kept me guessing until
I heard NPs comments on the song during the World premiere. With that in mind,
I can readily recognise the"ancient queen of inner-space" or the "gentle friend"
inside me. Everything NP writes need not necessarily be abstract and "scholarly"
 The important thing is that the lyrics are sensible and realistic.
Let's look at it this way. NP could have easily come up with a very trite
song about love and included it under the general theme of "Counterparts".
But the songs SOL & CF are about the complexity of love and are not "love
songs" in the usual sense.

Nobody's hero is a good description of noble but ordinary people we overlook
in everyday life. Maybe "Everyday Glory" is in that direction too.
What Iam driving at is this. It is just too easy to dismiss this album
as lyrical deficient because it is not as profound as, say, Hemispheres.
Maybe I am too eager to appreciate Rush. But as I see it, CP is original
in its own way and we should not reject it by an arbitrary comparison with
earlier albums.Let us give Rush a decent amout of credit for striving so
hard to produce albums that are progressive lyrically and musically.

Thanks for reading thro'

Later

Swami.

P.S. It is not my intention to flame anybody who has been critical
of CP's lyrics. I only wish to provide a different perspective on the
matter.

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 19:49:43 EST
From: jenkinsp@kenyon.edu
Subject: CP is dope]

  A friend of mine and I drove an hour to get to a record store, and we got it.
I liked it right away.  It usually takes me a while to get used to the new
albums, but I liked this one right way.  The whole album is just awesome.  I
definitely think that it's at least the best since PoW, and may be even better.
There is no doubt that the tour is going to be killer, even if King's X does
open.  I hope that the boys think about releasing a new live album with stuff
from the RTB and CP tours.
  BTW, how could Rush leave Xanadu and Kid Gloves off Chronicles?
    (You agree, don't you Eric and Daryl?)
                                               Enjoy--Later,
                                                          Peter Jenkins
 "Though we live in trying times--
  We're the ones who have to try--
  Though we know that time has wings--
  We're the ones who have to fly"
            NP--"Everyday Glory"

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 20:21:42 -0400
From: gt3144a@prism.gatech.edu

Well, I've been reading NMS for a few weeks now, so I suppose that now
it's time for me to post.

I got Counterparts at the Georgia Tech bookstore today.  I've listened
to every song at least once, and some of them more.  Mostly it's very
good - better than RTB, by far.  There are times when I find Geddy's
voice quite irritating.  Animate is one of those.  I just don't like
it.  However, with strong backing instrumentals, such as those in most
of the rest of the album, he sounds great.  The lyrics aren't quite
as good as Neil's usually are... I found some parts of the album to
be trite, such as the first verse of "Nobody's Hero".  I'd like more
subtlety.

On symbols:
  Rush's songs are usually chock full of interesting allusions, symbols
and such.  I haven't looked over the cover completely yet, but  I think
there will be plenty there.  Neil mentioned reading Jung in the inteview,
right? (I don't know, I still haven't read all of it)  If I recall
correctly, one of the subjects Jung wrote about was symbols in the
"collective consciousness" of a culture.  In that light, I'm nearly
positive that the cover art is meant as some sort of sexual symbolism.
As for the binary pattern on the cover, I tried breaking it up into
8-bit segments, and converting to ASCII, but I don't think that's what
it is.  If I was a conspiracy-theorist nut, rather than a general all
purpose nut, I would also claim that the triangle pattern on the cover
is a reference to Trilateralism.

Rand:
  I first started reading Ayn Rand because I had heard that 2112 was
based on _Anthem_.  After reading _Anthem_ I went on to other Rand
books, and for a while, became a die-hard, foaming-at-the-mouth
Objectivist.  Then I read a biography of Ayn Rand by James T. Bakker,
which caused me to lose faith in Rand's rationality.  I don't think that
Counterparts is Randian.  It's aggressiveness is reminiscent of Rush's
Randian days, but those days are over, and once gone, can never return.
(Incidentally, NMS is indirectly responsible for my becoming an
Objectivist, since it was from an old copy of the FAQ that somebody
had uploaded to a BBS that told me about Rand's influence in 2112.)

Eric

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 20:27:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: jservait@uceng.uc.EDU (Joe Servaites)
Subject: Anybody Know what all this stuff means?

I'm sure that all of you have thoroughly (sp??) scrutinized the inner
cover of your CP disk already, so did you find a meaning for
every thing???
I noticed that a lot of the multi-colored words on the left side correspond
to the picures (lock, stock, barrel; scissors, paper, stone,,,,etc)
BUT, what's the deal with that maple leaf with the boy scout symbol?
How about that P and Q? (Mind your P's and Q's???)  The pile of X's and Y's?
The guy shooting the compound bow? Who is that playing the accordion?

   [ The x's & y's I would think would be the x and y chromosomes. I believe 
     that's Neil shooting the bow (I heard he had taken up archery);
     my guess is it represents "hunter/hunted", even though there is no 
     "hunted" in the picture. And I think it's Alex playing the accordian...
								: rush-mgr ]

OK, enough writing, it's time to crank Counterparts again!!!
Later
Joe

PS this tour is going to be sweeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!
PPS Sorry, I dont have any long fucking signature .......

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 93 20:48:17 -0400
From: Gregg Jaeger 
Subject: Rand, Dos Passos, etc.

Oh boy, more from:

>From: Eric Simpson 

>> Extensive knowledge of Neil? I bet he'd be amused that you know so
>> much about him, NOT.

>     You're right- he wouldn't be amused.  He tends to not like having
>people "invade his privacy" by digging up all there is on him.  But
>I think most unbiased NMSrs would disagree with your implication
>about me.

What implication? All I am saying is that his lyrics are not sufficient
evidence of what goes on in the privacy of his mind. All honest Peart
watchers have been surprised by Neil's shifts of opinion (in
interviews) from time to time.

>> You might try more of show than tell, thanks. Your quotations (the
>> one's that have been substantiated) don't make Neil Randian.

>     If quoting Neil doesn't count as "showing", what would?  Having
>him call you up and tell you what I'm saying? (I wish!).  This is a
>VERBAL exchange - it HAS to be "telling".

By *show* I mean demonstrate clearly. You haven't demonstrated
that now Peart is Randian, nor that his recent lyrics are so.

>    As for Neil being "Randian", it depends on how you define it.
>As I said, I would not, and Neil would not, describe him as Objectivist.
>Heavily influenced by Rand?  Certainly, if that's what you mean by "Randian".
>And I think my messages did that to a certain extent.  But once again,
>that is a drop in the bucket.  I think it's obvious to ANY Rush fan
>that Neil is "Randian".

I doubt that. For one, I am a Rush fan and don't consider him Randian.
Several others have agreed with me here and via private email.
'Nuff said.

>>>* I never said Neil was an Objectivist *  But[...] how can anyone seriously
>>>think Rand was not a MAJOR, if not THE major influence on Neil's writings?
>>>If you know of any single person who has influenced Neil's lyrics as much as,
>>> or more than, Rand has (besides Neil himself), please let me know!
>>>(And you know Robbins, Smith,  Dos Passos, et al don't count).

>> I'd say it *is* Dos Passos, especially since Dos is the writer most
>> often alluded to by Neil. And guess what? Dos Passos refused to buy
>> into the capitalism vs. socialism game. He was more or less a "left-wing
>> libertarian." (btw, the "al" in _et al._ needs a period.)

>     You are incorrect - for the most part.  We are talking here about
>*idealogical* influence, right?  Well, Neil has said:
>
>    "The only connection is in the [song] titles.  I am a big fan of
>      Dos Passos' stylistic ability, his poetic approach to prose, but
>      the ideas presented in the songs are quite different from from
>      those which he exemplified."

I thought we were talking about *influence*? You are hypocritically
holding a double standard. The fact of the matter is that Dos had
a long career and exemplified a broad range of opinions, becoming
progressively more conservative with time, though he began as a
leftist, ending as more or less a left-wing libertarian (meaning:
someone who believes in maximizing personal liberties without
resorting to laissez-faire economics). This Neil has in common
with Dos Passos, though he'd no more like to be seen as a follower
of Dos than he would of Rand. Dos Passos is known as a socialist
because of his early political views and the fact that during
the Fifties he advocated peaceful coexistence with the Soviets.
But by the end of his life he was quite a Republican. Dos is not
known as an example of a Republican despite the fact that he was
one. The key in the above phrase is "exemplified." Dos Passos was
more of an observer than an ideologue. Furthermore, despite what
Neil says in the above "The Camera Eye" is as like the introduction
to Dos Passos' _USA_ trilogy as 2112 is like Anthem, and TCE is
not without ideas. Read and learn.

>You said:
>> I bet he'd be amused that you know so much about him, NOT.
>
>     Back at ya.

I never claimed to know what his politics is other than what he
has said, namely he's a "left-wing libertarian."

>     That is why I added my caveat about those three writers - I knew
>you'd try it.  So, the question still stands:  Who has had more, or
>as much, influence on Neil's ideas?

Your caveat was and is a cop-out which serves no purpose, unless
you think that writing can be done without conveying ideas.

>     As for your comments concerning Jung and Freud, one must not be
>superficial (I'm not saying you are).  Consider : Neil has read many
>books which may be classified as "un-Objectivist".  Invariably, however,
>when Neil places that influence in his writings, it is something
>not fundamental and quite tangential to the ideas he's read.

Note that in the face of subsequent evidence (Neil's comments on
Jung, which showed him to take Jung seriously _contra_ your STRONG
statements to the contrary couched in typical Objectivist bs about
rationality).

>     For example, the book that influenced "Hemispheres" was "Powers
>of Mind" by Adam Smith.  That book is now widely regarded as pseudo-
>scientific trash.  And the part that dealt with "two personalities"
>involving halves of the brain was only one among many questionable
>pieces.  And still, it didn't have as MUCH influence as you'd expect.
>Neil used it to express the idea of a "well rounded person" or to
>express his views concerning how reason and emotion interact in a person.

The book is considered largely trash, but the independence of the
hemispheres of the brain is *not* trash and is what in fact Neil
took away from the Smith book. In "Animate" Neil takes away quite
alot from Jung and clearly takes him seriously. Sorry, you must
admit your error out of "intellectual honesty." Face up.

>No, it is "animus".  Whoa - never heard of it.  Enlighten me.  My bottom
>line is: Jung's influence is not fundamental to Jung; Rand's is.
>And the influence ON NEIL isn't as powerful either.

You haven't demonstrated this even remotely in regard to recent Rush.
Fans of Rand are far too ready to see any individualism as rooted in
Rand. Rand ripped off Nietzsche and tossed in a bit of Kantian (though
she'd never admit it) moral universalism (to prevent societal
degradation). There are plenty of influences in regard to Neil's
rationalism as well: note Neil has been willingly photographed holding
a book one by Aristotle but *not* one by Rand.

>> >But please correct me if I'm wrong - Since the context of your post was
>> >to show that at least parts of the album contradicted Rand, what were you
>> >trying to say by quoting "the space between fiction and fact"?

>> The song from which this paraphrase comes is "Between Sun and Moon",
>> which says that "this is a fine place to be" (again, paraphrasing).

>     Please answer the question.  Your quotes were meant to show
>Neil, or CP, or those particular songs as being contrary to Rand.

I guess I was presuming that you could recognize the obvious, namely
that this lyric sanctions a degree of fantasizing (though clearly
not much in practice: see "Cold Fire") that Rand wold find repulsive,
as she would any fantasizing whatsoever.

>> >     "Big Money [...] It can do a lot of good.  That's why I say
>> >in the last line of the song, 'big money got no soul.' It's not money
>> >that does it - it's not money that's good or bad - it's people, the
>> >people who use it as a tool." - NP
>> >     And since the basic principle behind capitalism is freedom,
>> >including the freedom to use your money in stupid or immoral ways, the
>>> >song has no bearing on capitalism as such.

>> Au contraire! Please, leave off the doctrine business. Capitalism
>> is what it is, and some of what is done by those who follow it is evil.
>> The song is about capitalism, not Rand's view of it's philosophical basis.

>     Please re-read.  Neil himself said it's not about capitalism.
>The definition of capitalism is NOT: people using money.  That behavior
>goes on in other non-capitalistic places.  As Neil said (and which you
>deleted out of the quote) was that the song was written out of a response
>to a feeling among people that anything that has dollar signs is bad.
>That is certainly not criticizing capitalism.

It's not sanctioning it either. Look, it's clear you didn't understand
what I typed -- I meant capitalism is what capitalism is and not some
theoretical construct of Objectivism. If you insist on talking about
that theoretical construct then please call it O-capitalism, otherwise
you are evading reality. Capitalism is economics based on the profit
motive, period. The profit motive leads many to inhuman acts. I guess
you need to learn a bit more about the Robber Barons.

>By the way, correcting spelling and punctuation errors is the last refuge
>for those who have lost their case.

I wasn't correcting a spelling or punctuation error, I was correcting
a *grammatical* error. Correcting grammatical errors is the first move
of those wishing to inform. Furthermore, I have not lost any case, and
am not the one on whom the burden of proof lies in regard to the central
issue: Peart's "Randianism" and Rand's influence on the present Neil
Peart.

Gregg

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 20:34:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: David Michae Carver 
Subject: A Counterparts Question

	Hello all! It's been quite a while since my last post here, and I
figured now was a more-than-apropos time to post once again.

	My reactions to the album: It's GREAT. No, wait. It's not. "Great"
is a understatement. This album is unsurpassed compared the past few albums.
I have to admit, though, that I was very surprised when I heard the whole
album for the first time. A few songs were not at all what I expected,
namely "Leave That Thing Alone". It's a great song, but after the boyz'
previous excercises in self-indulgence, I was a bit surprised. But I can't
quite put my finger on why. Not yet, anyway. :-)
	Now to the real reason for this post. Does anyone know if Rush
recorded any tracks for Counterparts that never made it to the "final
round"? I remember those rumors about "Luci and Desi"; perhaps this was
one? Now that I think about it, has Rush _ever_ not put songs on an album?
I remember reading in "Visions" (it's been a while, so forgive me) that
they didn't have _enough_ material for one of the albums (I think it was
"Signals", but I don't remember), and they wound up having to write
another song. And you'll notice that there are no previously unreleased
tracks on Chronicles. If Rush ever released a boxed set, would there be
anything previously unheard (by us, anyway) on it?
	The curiosity's killing me! :-)

	- Dave

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 20:59:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: I'M STILL DROWNING 
Subject: OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hhehe, first off..I would really like to personally and publically thank
Meg for taking all her time compiling these things when the influx of
traffic must have been INTENSE the last few weeks in all of our 'pre-
orgasmic' states concerning the Rush release.  Also thanks for giving
us a listen to them weeks before the masses with the .au files.
Mega *HUGS* from Connecticut!!

Anyways, as scheduled, the Cd finally hit the doorsteps here in CT and
I got mine at 10am when the record store opened haha.  I listened to
the Cd first at work on a portable Cd player and it sounded sooooo nice,
then I threw it in my car cd player on the trek home and here I am (some
8hrs later) listenin to it on my stereo.  It sure sounds great...!!
In the 14yrs (since I was twelve) I have been a Rush fanatic, this album
has caused for the most anticipation --probably because I heard a good
deal of it in advance and because I thought it was a new stage in Rush's
ongoing evolution.  I want to take a stab though at Dale R. Buske up
at Iowa state.. SIGNALS is your next to your last fav Rush album in order?
You have GOT to be kidin...!  I remember the signals tour and the baseball
concert shirts and how much Subdivisions/Analog Kid related to my life
as well as others when I was growing up.  And I used to listen to "The
Weapon" first thing in the morning every morning for like 2yrs from 8th
grade on....wow, Signals was one of Rush's best album and deserves much
praise.

Back to CP,  I have really gotta tell ya all, I love this album and I
think all songs on it are impressive.  I really like "Nobodys Hero" and
dont think it sounds "trite" as some have mentioned. The acoustic guitar
on that song reminds me so much of Natural Science I almost wanna throw
in PW after it and really get crazy :).  Coldfire and Animate are really
Incredible tunes musically and syncopation-wise.   And, even though some
guy on here thought "ah..yes to yes" were stupid lyrics, I think Between
Sun and Moon is the most viable candidate for a hit perhaps in the
magnitude as "Tom Sawyer" for Rush...the song has catchyness and it just
sounds Great!!

I hope to see ya all on the tour this year and I am too all for the
gift for the guys' 20th anniversary tour....its a grand idea!

Take care

		"ah yes to yes!!"   :)

Al Filandro                           (Cygnusrush@Aol.com  and above)

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1993 21:12:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: MOSUREGD@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu
Subject: Counterparts ... of course

I picked up my copy of Counterparts Monday night from CD Connection here
in Dayton and I think it rauks!

However, my housemates think that the album cover is kinda stupid.  I thought
the cover was very appropriate: A nut and a bolt are reletively fundamental
pieces of equipment that hold together the most magnificent structures.

Which, is what I think Rush was hinting at when they decided on the album
cover.  Our counterparts (internal or external) are very primitive, but
should not be overlooked because they *are* important.  Kind of a Simple
but Complex idea  ("Wheels within wheels in a spiral array ..."?)

Anyway, I think my housemates are off their rockers (they aren't real Rush
fans, just kinda social Rush fans.  They would never be a part of a Rush
mailing list!) and it doesn't surprise me that they think it is studpid.
I'm not gonna waste the effort to try to explain it to them.

Anyway Rush, nice job ...

Greg

----------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 19 Oct 93 21:36:03 EDT
From: Frank Lalonde <533557@acadvm1.uottawa.ca>
Subject:      Checking on USA vs Canadian CD

I was curious about something in the artwork inside the cover...
In the Canadian CD, there's pictures of both sides of a Canadian
quarter...(Queen Liz II on one side, a moose on the other side).

Is this in the American CD also? Please email me directly, and not the list
as to not add extra trivialities to the digest!

    [ I got mine in the good old US and yes, it does have the front and back
      of a Canadian quater.					: rush-mgr ]

Thanks!

******************************************************
* Frank Lalonde ... Have a Budweiser, I know I will! *
* Telnet: 533557@acadvm1.UOttawa.CA                  *
* Bitnet: 533557@uottawa                             *
******************************************************

----------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 19 Oct 93 21:32:29 LCL
From: Kevin Cooney 
Subject:      Critics lighten up

For several days now I've been reading criticism of CP. The criticism
is of the lyrics for the most part. So here's my two cents: LIGHTEN
UP! And here's a NEWS FLASH for ya...RUSH doesn't write lyrics to
please *us*. They create music for themselves first and foremost.

Musically, CP is outstanding. It has been some time since one of their
albums has had this much ENERGY! These three guys have composed an excellent
album sonically--as Geddy seems to think.

Lyrically, however, CP has some rough edges. "Nobody's Hero" springs to
mind in this regard. "Between Sun and Moon" is also a bit strange. But I don't
believe most folks buy Rush for the lyrics. The music these guys pump out is
absolutely superior--especially live! If you don't like the lyrics, try
your hand at ignoring them and concentrating on the sound. (hard to do
on "Nobody's Hero", eh?)

Give it some time! P/G took a long time for me to get used to.

BTW, "Animate" and "Cold Fire" are especially good tunes. Let's hope
Rush gets their next album out before the end of '94.

Kevin, Brewerton, NY

----------------------------------------------------------

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The contents of The National Midnight Star are solely the opinions and 
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End of The National Midnight Star Number 788
********************************************


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