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Subject: 08/24/98 - The National Midnight Star #2091

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List posting/followup:
Administrative matters:

(Administrative postings to the posting address will be ignored!)


         The National Midnight Star, Number 2091

                   Monday, 24 Aug 1998

Today's Topics:
             Go see The Hip in the Northeast
          repost by implied request: Tostado  =)
               Different Stages setlist...
                      Rush sighting
Why is everyone so disappointed about the setlist for the new live CD's?
Grand Designs of Mice & Men....The Pilgram Plymouth Rock Dance...
                   Live Album Overdubs
                 Re: Neil's intelligence
                    re. "Chad Werner"
            An entire state of Rush sightings!
              Neil Peart vs. Carter Beauford
                  Anthem Tour Schedule?
    My versions of future Rush releases (YEAH RIGHT!!)
                   Comments and Regrets
                 James Taylor covers RUSH
        Two weird questions & one normal question
  Rush Remasters and CD-ROMs too fast for their own good
                        live album
                      Dimlit Stages
                    Rush out of touch
                  Re: Territories effect
                     Re: embarassing
               Masked Rider & Shock Rock 2
         Re: Naked man on 2112 Album Cover (back)
                   rush in hall of fame
              Here's an idea: Big Band Rush
                         Rush DVD
                Neil vs. Carter  revisited
                   Live album thoughts
                          RU SH
             ummmm is this thing on? 
                   TOOL: rivaling RUSH
                    Exactly My Point!

From: Brent Hitterdal 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:45:31 -0400
Subject: Go see The Hip in the Northeast

Any Rush fans in the Boston/NH/Vermont/Maine area may want to consider
going out to catch The Hip next week.  They are at Hampton Beach Casino in
NH on Thursday the 27th, The State Theater in Portland Maine on Friday and
at Sugarbush Mountain in Vermont on Saturday.  If you are from the Toronto
area it should be less than a 10 hour road trip.  The shows are all only
about 2000 people and the casino show is only $15 ($58.92 Canadian) and if
you call them directly there are no service charges - go to
 It beats sitting a mile (43.2 kilometers) away in Maple Leaf Gardens.  I'm
heading out there from Minnesota to see all three shows.  The Hip with
their latest release have become the first band in 16 (84.3 dog) years I
look more forward to a new release from than Rush.  Rush is still far and
away my favorite band though - what they like to play now and what I like
to listen to are just not as close as they used to be.  I would walk to New
Hampshire from Minnesota to see Rush for three nights if they promised to
play In The Valley - even just the classic Alex lead in riff, or Here Again
with an extended guitar solo.

Has anyone else noticed a large increase in the amount of Rush played on
the radio lately?  Seems every place I have travelled they have been
playing them - especially Working Man.  Some radio industry survey come out
that ranked them high or something?  Both of our local newer rock stations
have been playing 2112 and Working Man all the time.


1998 NFC Central Division and Superbowl Champion Minnesota Vikings
preseason total score 62-0.

phantom power


Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 12:09:34 -0700
Subject: repost by implied request: Tostado  =)


If we burn our toast
Frying too hot for the bun
If the moment of golden (brown)
Has past us before its noticed 
If the slice is done --
Though everything is charred
We will scrape the blackstuff
But we will not spread the lard

When the carbon's been cleared
And victory denied
Tortilla too soft-y
Bagel's a little too wide
If the jam does glide --
Though loaves so nice are lost
We will heat the rice,
But we will not serve the toast

And if the toaster stops!
There's only the pound-cake to blame
All the hope and glory
All the kneading done in vain
[and] if the loaf has grains
Though every slice is tossed
We will slay them twice
But the baker we'll not accost

My apologies to rush fans everywhere for this [re] travesty of humor.


From: (Ryan  N Waggoner)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 02:07:23 -0500
Subject: Different Stages setlist...

(Dear rush-mgr, 

Feel free to delete this entire's just my feelings on the whole
thing, and I don't mean to directly offend anyone -- just make them
realize what they're doing.  Thank you.)

Okay, yeah, I'm disappointed that The Analog Kid isn't on the album, and
I could come up with a whole list of songs I wish were on there, but
let's cut to the chase, shall we?  We could not even be *getting* a live
album.  We could not be getting the AFTK show, and there's a lot of
people out there who didn't make it to any of the CP/T4E shows (myself
included).  Yeah, I don't like the fact that Rush corrects their mistakes
on live albums, but I'd rather have that than listen to one more person
bitch and complain about the setlist.  It's what the band chose, and
there must be a reason for it!  What the reason is, I don't know. 
Personally, I don't mind them putting CTTH on the album, because I'm
anticipating something like when I heard the ASOH version for the first
time, when the ending completely caught me by surprise.  There's a reason
it's on there -- I'm sure if the band just needed something to fill in
space, and they didn't much care what it was, they would have picked some
song *no-one* cares about.  And, as for TS, they've been playing the song
for at least 17 years now, so it's *bound* to have some sort of deviation
from the ESL version.  Sure, I made jokes about the setlist at first, but
I think everyone here is forgetting a *VERY* important thing here -- the
band owes us *nothing*.  They make music for themselves, and then we buy
it because we like it, too.  I can't figure out how people keep coming to
the conclusion that just because we support them, and they're grateful to
us for supporting them -- just because of that, everyone thinks they owe
us something!!  NO!!!  And if "fans" keep acting like a bunch of whiny
little brats who don't get their way, and refuse to give Neil the privacy
he requests, I can't say I'd blame them if they called it quits.  No, I
wouldn't be happy, but I'd deal with it, because it's not the end of the

"Someday we'll find it: the rainbow connection; the lovers, the dreamers,
and me."
     Kermit the Frog ("The Rainbow Connection")
Visit my page!!  <  >


From: The King of Norway 
Date: 21 Aug 98 13:31:59 MDT
Subject: Rush sighting

Hey anyone out there in Rushland!

I was at a gas station in Orlando, and I saw that someone left the gas pump at
$21.12.  Was it someone on the list?  It was really cool.

Joel Foreman


From: "Michael Z. Williamson" 
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 14:31:00 -0700
Subject: territories

an orbital mind-control laser told to say:
>I was listening to Territories on headphones yesterday and I noticed
>that in the opening vocals, there are two echoes of geddy's line.  The
>first comes in soft on the right channel, and the second even softer on
>the left channel.  Anybody else hear this?

It's called "ping pong" or stereo echo--bounces from side to side.  can
be a REALLY cool effect with drunks--watch 'em fall over.


"Transported to a surreal landscape, a young girl kills the first
woman she meets, then teams up with three complete strangers to kill
again." -- TV listing for "The Wizard of Oz"


From: "Will Holt" 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:46:40 -0400
Subject: OOOOOF...SALESMEN!!!!

I had a question about TSoR.  What is the intent behind the verse "And it
echoes with the sounds of salesmen"?  Is he referring to Rush as being
salesmen and this is a good thing (objectivism)?  Or is he referring to
others who only care about making money off music and putting them down by
referring to them as salesmen?  What kind of comment is he making with
regard to Paul Simon's original lyrics?

Thanks to Mike Bahr, I have my very own copy of _Darkness and Light_.  One
warning to those thinking of purchasing this CD.  Geddy's voice sounds
terrible!  He must have had a cold that night.  You can hear him struggling
to get the words out on just about every song.  His voice is constantly
cracking and he often sounds like he has a frog in his throat.  This also
seems to throw the other guys off.  Sound quality is great but not as good
as _Mirrors_.  It sounds like it might be from a later generation copy or
something, maybe even from analog tape.  A lot of the low end is missing
from songs like "Xanadu" and "Show Don't Tell".  Also got _A Desperate
Voice_ and it is AWESOME!!  It is great having soundboard quality versions
of "Territories", "Lock and Key" and "Prime Mover" on CD.



From: "Ronald Smith" 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:51:07 -0300
Subject: Why is everyone so disappointed about the setlist...

Dear Rush fans,

    Why does everyone seem disappointed about the setlist from the =
forthcoming live CD set? I, for one, am grateful to the band for =
continuing to release recordings; after almost 25 years, it seems that =
many of us have gotten blase about new material, whether it's live or =
studio. We should never take Alex, Geddy , and Neil for granted, as this =
could be their last release as a band. If this is the case, many thanks =
for a lifetime of musical memories. If they continue into the new =
millenium, I'm sure they'll produce top-quality music for their legions =
of fans world-wide.

    I've always pictured the boyz doing a huge farewell concert at a =
well-known venue, say the Skydome, with 50,000 + fans in attendance for =
one last curtain call. This would seem more fitting as the end than =
anything else. I'm excited that there are some tracks on the new CD set =
that I have never heard done live; we poor blokes in Atlantic Canada =
don't get to see the band very often, anymore, so I am greatly =
anticipating this new work.

    I don't know if any other rock band has done four live recordings. =
It would be nice if the band does another "cycle" of four studio albums, =
then a final live set. Whatever the band members do decide to do, we =
should respect their decision and continue to be fans. Heck, they might =
even start their next tour in Eastern Canada.......


From: "Chaz M." 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 15:07:37 -0600
Subject: Grand Designs of Mice & Men....The Pilgram Plymouth Rock Dance...

Four score and seven NMS's ago...
Our founding fathers set out to make the NMS page...
The sacraficed, time, effort, small farm amimals,
        wives, kids, and yes....EVEN SPORTSCENTER HIGHLIGHTS!!!

See all ye on the cyber waves, I sense an ere of ungrateful attitudes.....

Each new release....LIKE IT OR like the pilgrams landing on
plymouth rock and
jumping out of the boat yelling....

"Ohhhhhhh   GREAT!!!!!   THIS IS JUST GREAT!!!!!!    LAND!!!!!  JUST WHAT I

You see, just take the releases as they come, and be grateful you lived in
the time when dinosaurs ruled the earth!!!!

Open up the heart of gratefulness....think about it....most bands that
started out when RUSH did are either dead-dudes now or working some sorry 9-5 
gig like the rest of us....

So....just rejoice....remember, we're only IMORTAL for a limited time....

Ahh, to knive my way into the bitter Grand Designs of Mice and Men!!!!




Date: Fri, 21 Aug 98 14:01:59 -0800
Subject: Live Album Overdubs

QUESTION:  How much overdubbing was used to "treat" the band's live albums? 
Would anyone care to post a somewhat detailed discussion of the dubs?  I'd
appreciate it.  Thanks in advance!


From: David Holladay 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 16:06:52 -0500
Subject: Re: Neil's intelligence

>I don't know about Geddy or Alex, but I know Neil was a high school
>dropout.  (Simply amazes me, still, that the man is that brilliant, and
>he dropped out of high school.  He's better educated and more well read
>than a lot of college graduates I know.)

In my opinion, Neil is as brilliant a philosopher and writer as he is a
drummer.  I guess it depends on what you mean by "educated and well read,"
but he is a one that I know (personally) even comes close!


From: Michael Keene 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 14:39:00 -0700
Subject: re. "Chad Werner"

You have brought up some interesting points, but I think I have a few good
reasons to support my argument, and here they are: When the B. Boys first
came out in the 80's, it was hard to take them seriously as a "white" rap
band. If you study your rock history, you'll see that R&R was heavily
influenced by the blues, which was a form of music pioneered by black
artists. One of the main arguments against rock music by parents in the
fifties and sixties was the objection that their WASP kids could not listen
to anything connected with black culture. The same is true of rap today
(gangsta rap, etc). Therefore, the B. Boys were simply (in my opinion)
another attempt to cross over. There is nothing wrong with this, but while
talented black artists are producing music, why should the B. Boys, with
arguably little talent (what instruments do they play, and I don't think
that ANYONE can say they can sing) attempt to sell a product that is a
"recycled" version of a very legitimate art form in the black community?
Also, look at your statement: "They are more mature, and their talent
shows. They (the B. Boys) have sampled Mountain, Pink Floyd, and Led Zep
w/great success. Why not Rush?" IMO, the test of a musician's legitimacy is
how much originality they can contribute, not how well they can copy. The
young kids of today are being done a disservice when they are told how
"talented" bands are today, when in reality most of what comes out is a
carbon copy of what someone else has done. Even most rap artists are exact
copies of what has been done earlier by the pioneers of the genre. For a
good read on the subject, read Ronin' Ro's "Gangsta Rap". He argues that
even in the black community, there is very little work of any creativity
being produced anymore. Every artist sounds like every one else, and the
talent pool has been watered down. Every "angry young black man on the
street", (my quote) it seems, if they can rap, are given record deals. They
may be artists, but are they muscicians? I label rap as an art form, yes.
But how many serious muscians are in the genre? A distinction needs to be
made between viable music, which actually requires skill to produce, versus
other mediums. Apologies for the length.   


From: John Gerard Lupoli 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:12:34 -0400
Subject: videos

Hey rush-mgr,
	What ever happened to your realplayer  studio video section. That was
awesome. It's been down for months. When is it coming back?
	By the way, do you know the lyrics for You Can't Fight It and Fancy

   [ I might put back up some realvideo files at a future point. When we 
     moved the web site off of umd to yyz, I didn't move over the RV files
     because of disk limitations. Now that I have some space, the umd machine
     doesn't have them online (they were on an external drive), so I'm waiting
     for the drive to be reattached to ftp the files off. Because I *really*
     don't feel like redoing them all!                           : rush-mgr ]

Matt Lupoli
Age: 14
North Haven, Ct


From: (Shawn Cook)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:08:03 -0400
Subject: An entire state of Rush sightings!

     Hi gang,
     Some DOT manager here in Virginia decided to start with ZZZ-9999 for 
     the standard issue liscense plates and work backwards.  Now, I live in 
     a state where about 10,000 cars' plates start with YYZ.  I think they 
     had to skip over YYZ-2112 -- don'tcha think?


From: "Drs. Samuel A. and Marta P. Scott" 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 18:17:52 -0600
Subject: Neil Peart vs. Carter Beauford

I am writing in response to a recent post by one Dave
( regarding Carter Beauford's percussive
abilities relative to Peart's.

I'm an old time Rush fanatic and also a Peart-cloned drummer of sorts
who is still willing to say that Peart is, arguably (depending on
historical context), the best drummer to grace rock & roll, from a
combination of creative and technical standpoints.

On the other hand, my clear impression is that Carter Beauford has
advanced to a higher absolute technical level than Neil ever achieved -
just as Neil established a higher level than Keith Moon. All drummers -
all musicians, in fact - must be viewed in appropriate historical

To put this another way, Neil would have difficulty with many of
Beauford's tracks, whereas Rush tunes - no matter which - would
amount to grade school work for Carter. (This is certainly my personal
impression based on attempts to play Rush vs. Dave Matthews material.) I
say this with all due respect for Neil.

Beauford's accenting, off-time signature beats, power & precision (and
coloring) all consistently surpass the absolute technical standards set
by Peart in the '80s, when he reached his artistic peak. 

This isn't to say I don't continue to prefer many of Neil's arrangements
over Beauford's work, however, and creative arranging is certainly
another aspect of great drumming. Perhaps that is why I would continue
to maintain that, all angles considered, Neil rules.

Sam Scott


From: "Caldwell, Mike" 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 17:46:47 -0700

Hey Everyone,

After reading the last 5 TNMS posts, I take it alot of you Rush-heads are
pretty pissed off that certain songs have been omitted from the new live
CD's. I do agree with some of you about Presto. I would have loved to hear
The Pass, Show Don't Tell, Superconductor and so on. I guess the Boys have
their reasons why nothing from Presto made it and I won't even speculate on
that. I was hoping the 3rd disk would have contained the entire HEMISPHERES
song live but I guess not. I'm really not THAT disappointed with the song
list from the 2 other live discs. I really expected it. I am a bit confused
about Presto though. I know alot of Rush fans that don't like that CD or
they say it's the weakest of them all, But I thought it was a good CD. I
think The Pass is the most "emotional" song Neil has ever written. I know
about Nobodys Hero, but I still think The Pass is the one that gets me
everytime I hear it. Let's all relax and wait for the CD's to hit the record
stores and I'm sure this thread will flame up again. Until

In the CD Player :

1. Rush: Hemispheres
2. Cairo: Conflict and Dreams
3. Stevie Ray Vaughan: Greatest Hits
4. Dream Theater: Awake
5. Iron Maiden: Killers
6. Queensryche: Rage for Order
7. ELP: Tarkus
8. Spice Girls: Spice World
9. Joe Satriani: The Extremist
10. Led Zeppelin: In Through the Out Door   


Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:14:14 -0400
Subject: Anthem Tour Schedule?

I read with interest the enthusiastic note on Anthem's performance in
Arizona.  They sound great.  Is their tour schedule available?  Regards.


From: Joe Morisseau 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 21:32:55 -0400
Subject: My versions of future Rush releases (YEAH RIGHT!!)

With all the talk EVERYWHERE about the live album and such, it got me 
thinking of what I would do if I could release stuff from Rush's 
catalog. I know I can't, so there's really nothing to do but ponder....

I know even this setlistings will not make everyone happy, but hey, it's 
about all the stuff you could want that isn't officially released. Of 
course, I may have missed something, no doubt, oh well....Feel free to 
add it in somewhere!

(Note that these are not figured out to the second, and I do not know 
exactly what these time in as. But, it's kinda close I guess... They are 
in no particular order)

The Live album covers material from Presto-T4E.....

Then there's other stuff after.

Sorry about the length of the post!

                        Different Stages (my version)

Disc one:

War Paint               
Half The World          
Analog Kid              
The Pass                

Disc two:                                       

Test For Echo           
Stick It Out            
Roll The Bones          
Nobody's Hero           
Show Don't Tell         
Leave That Thing Alone  
Time And Motion         
Cold Fire               
Natural Science         

Disc three:

Ghost of a Chance       
Vital Signs             
Where's My Thing        
Double Agent            

The Spirit of Radio     
Tom Sawyer              
YYZ/Cygnus teaser       

Boxed set 

            Title- Retrothingies Live '74 - '87:  Didn't we play these?

Disc one:

Need Some Love          
Here Again              
Bad Boy                 
Fancy Dancer            
Beneath, Between, & Behind (complete)          
The Twilight Zone       
A Farewell to Kings     
Cinderella Man                         

Disc two:

Cygnus X-1              
Natural Science               (complete)
The Camera Eye          
Working Man medley            (reggae Working Man w/medley)         

Disc three:

Digital Man             
The Body Electric       
Kid Gloves              
Red Lenses              
Between the Wheels                     
Grand Designs          
Middletown Dreams       
Lock & Key                             

****** BONUS  ******* 

With purchase of boxed set, customer can get free *limited edition* cd 

        Not Fade Away/Can't Fight It  (remastered from original tapes)


Test for Echo tour video: The entire 6/30/97 Toronto show!!!!!!!!!!!!


Special Edition release: The Secret T4E Show!!!!!!!!!


Exit...Stage Left the video: Remastered on VHS, DVD, etc.

Bonus songs added: The Camera Eye, Natural Science, La Villa Strangiato


Grace Under Pressure tour video: Remastered on VHS, DVD, etc.

Bonus songs added: The Body Electric, Between the Wheels, Afterimage


CD-ROM : Loaded with rare footage, historical stuff, and goofy Alex     
         stuff :) Rare offstage, behind the scenes type stuff.


P.S. Yeah, I'm dreamin' here!!!!!!! 

                                 It's now safe to turn of your computer...



From: Mmcxii 
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 02:40:34
Subject: Mmcxii...

In a previous episode, we observed... 

> Hi, rushians, long time since i posted my last one, but all this 
>> time i was wondering how would it be to write 2112 in roman 
>> numbers, and i couldn't decide between MMCXII or XXIXII. 
>> Maybe is just a pronunciation problem but anyway, can anybody help 
>> me? thank you 

< Even though it's pronounced XXIXII or twenty-one twelve, the 
< correct Roman numeral is MMCXII. Those crazy Romans! 
< Valkyrie 


I assure you that the correct presentation of 2112 in Roman numerals *IS* 
MMCXII, but there is always room for the Roman numeral illerate. 

Now, just because I've been using Mmcxii as my internet name for several 
years now, as the licence plate number on my Corvette, as my official name 
in the PDGA (Professional Disc Golf Association), and have been a huge Rush 
fan ever since I laid my ears on 2112 in 1976 (and have been to no less than 
14 Rush concerts), that doesn't like, make me obsessed with this 
band... does it? 

(Who refuses to enter the "bitchaboutthesetlist" discussion) 

"Some people's kids..." Me


From: "Steph R." 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:13:57 EDT
Subject: Comments and Regrets

     I received so many responses to my Hitchhiker's guide post that I 
didn't get a chance to respond to any of them... Sorry guys!!

     I also regretfully announce since the school year is starting 
again, and I am up to my armpits in extracurricular activities, and for 
reasons beyond my control I am losing my internet acces except for maybe 
once every week or two, i regretfully unsubscribe to the NMS. I REALLY 
REALLY REALLY REALLY enjoyed reading it, and I'll miss all you guys alot 
*snif snif* but i will have little to no time to read it, considering i 
have very small amounts to do so anyways. (to tell you all the truth, 
the past four issues i skipped over all posts with the phrases "Live 
Album Set List" anywhere in them, i'm kind of excited that they're 
actually putting one out, but i'm looking forward moreso to a new 
Victor, or better yet but less possible new Rush studio album... (but 
hey, i'll buy the set anyways, knowing me- i am kinda miffed about the 
repeats however)

     I will say this much, though..... Every time I get on the internet, 
as rare as that will be, i will be running my AIM (Bufflystar) and my 
ICQ (17132392) so come chat with me, i'll be more than willing, since 
i'll miss my daily dose of rushdom...   :(

     With great sadness, and heavy heart, i bid you all a fond adieu... 
Maybe next summer, when June rolls around, i will have internet access 
and LOTS of time to be online.... (heck if i get my way and get my 
computer in my bedroom like i want i'll be online and resubscribing 
again in no time!!! ha, fat chance....) and i will resubscribe... 
Hopefully also, people will remember me and I'll get a warm welcome 
back! That sure would be nice.... :)

                Goodbye my dears, see you again ASAP... 
                        you all mean alot, 
                        believe it or not.

with much love, 


From: sberrett 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:39:33 -0400
Subject: James Taylor covers RUSH

it's true! well sort of.

I'm just finished watching a James Taylor concert on PBS. The last song
in the set was NOT FADE AWAY, the first RUSH single.

However, I believe the RUSH version was a cover itself. Can't remember
the original artist. 

"Love is real, not fade away"


From: (Derek Tetlow)
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:36:05 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Two weird questions & one normal question

Hey fellow Rushians!!!

I haven't posted in quite a while, but I've got a couple weird

1)  What was the last Rush album released on       8-Track tape?

2)  Has High Water ever been played live?

3)  In the Rock Encyclopedia under "Rush",      Alex is listed as being
born in Surney, British     Columbia.  I grew up in Tsawassen, B.C. and
there was a town called Surrey that was just     a few miles away.  Was
this the same town?     Was it just a typo?
Take care all!!!

Derek Tetlow
Streamline Sports Video
"Simplification through Modernization"


From: "Joseph Ornelas" 
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 1998 23:16:18 -0700
Subject: Rush Remasters and CD-ROMs too fast for their own good

I just today made a horrific discovery.  Thinking I would be clever by using the
line "Signal transmitted, message received" for an e-mail notification sound, I
popped my Signals remaster into my 24x CD-ROM to find that it didn't recognize
the disc as valid CD audio.  On a second try, it showed only one track, and when
I played it, it was as though the entire album was being forced into a few
minutes.  Every other attempt met with total failure, and as a final blow, the
CD-ROM decided to not let me eject the disc so I could try another one.  After
restarting the computer, and playing other remasters and ending up with the same
results, I tried the discs in my older computer, with a much slower 4x CD-ROM,
and they worked perfectly.  As for other audio CDs, they all work fine.  It's
just the Rush Remasters (and the Retrospectives) that cause the problem.  Has
this happened to anyone else with hi-speed CD-ROMs?  Does anyone know if there
is some strange step in the remastering process that causes this?

Joseph Ornelas

"Signal transmitted, message received."
         -Rush, when my CD-ROM works


From: "Alex Smith" 
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:01:02 -0700
Subject: marillion

Hawkfeathr reminded me about marillion being booed off the stage every night

Holy shit! I can't imagine that! Rush and Marillion are probably my two most
favorite bands; what an awesome combination (with Fish) that concert would
be! I would think Rushians would like Marillion, but....

Alex Smith
Subdivisions (Rush):
"A man got a right to wonder
 A man got a right to dream
 Without looking over his shoulder
 To choose the manner of the life he leads
 One man's thoughts on another man's skin
 We are lover, warrior, magician kings." -Fish


From: "Alex Smith" 
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:11:12 -0700
Subject: live album

No matter what anyone says or whatever happens with the new set, the best
Rush live album will always be All the World's a Stage! Talk about raw
power, youthful enthuiasm, and an AWESOME version of By-tor.

Last Played Before Last Played: Nine Inch Nails _Pretty Hate Machine_
Last Played: Pop Will Eat Itself _Dos Dedos Mis Amigos_
Now Playing: The Cure _Faith_
Next Playing: Pink Floyd _Wish You Were Here_
Next Playing After That: Live _Throwing Copper_

Alex Smith


From: "Berry, Paul W (Sema)" 
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:45:23 +0100
Subject: Dimlit Stages

Greetings from the UK,

I've been reading all of the views on the forthcoming live album and
decided to stick in my two pennies.....

Personally I'd like to see a complete release from a single show, warts
and all, like a boot.

This would give a better impression of the show as a whole and not a
collection of "perfect" perfromances.

I spent a lot of time last year reading about people's experiences at
the TFE shows and was dead jelous that we weren't going to get the
chance to see the boys on this side of the water. A complete live set
released on CD would give fans not in the US or Canada a better chance
to "live the live experience"

By the way, I'm delighted that the '78 concert is being included. This
is around the time I got into the band and I saw them at the "Hammy
Odeon" a number of times - not this tour though

While I'm on the airwaves are there any UK fans out there who know where
I can get my hands on boots ? Personal replies please so as not to clog
the list

Love & Kisses



From: Pete 
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:39:55 -0400
Subject: Rush out of touch

>I really am surprised that everyone is this upset about the setlist for=20
>"Different Stages", I have several bootlegs from Presto,RTB,CPand TFE =
>that sound better than ESL and ASOH ...I think that we can expect =
>another piece of overdubbed crap like a show of hands. The only hope is =
>a live video!
>John Haag

Amen John!  I, also, am not the least bit excited about the new "live"
album.  If anything like ESL and ASOF, it will be soapy clean, filled with
overdubs and lack any form of continuity, energy or soul.  

That's one reason I collect bootlegs.  I want to hear a Rush concert IN
FULL and in proper sequence.  I want to hear it as it actually happened
(imagine that!)  A "live" album should let the listener hear what the
concert was actually like.  You can't accomplish this when throwing
together twenty songs from four different tours and eight different cities.
 That's what made ASOF such a sham.

Consider this, you who would never buy a bootleg and who drool over the
thought of a pristine sounding new "live" album:  Ever Rush concert you
have gone to has had it's share of sound difficulties.  Face it, live
concert sound is severly lacking.  If you don't already know the lyrics,
you'll be hard pressed to catch them in concert.  In addition, how many
times have you seen Geddy and Alex mess up during the show, or hear Geddy's
voice crack, or hear Alex miss a note?  Yet you walk away from the show
thinking it was the greatest event you've ever witnessed.

So why does the thought of anything LESS THAN an overdubbed, lifeless,
crystal clear CD recording of a live show turn you off so much?

But I digress.  Much of the negative response to the new setlists has been
the omission of recent material, i.e. Presto.  This is so simple, that is,
if you really love listening to live Rush (i.e., if you don't pursue
bootlegs, then I seriously question your desire to listen to live Rush).
Rush could simply satisfy all parties by releasing at least one unedited,
unproduced, entire soundboard show from each tour or leg of each tour.  As
I have said in the past, this would require virtually no work on SRO's
part.  Grab the tape, press it on CD's and distribute through normal retail
outlets or a fan club.  Hell, there's bootleggers doing this right and left
every day on a much smaller economy of scale.

Rush and SRO fail to realize that there's a large following out here who
want every piece of live Rush we can get our hands on.  They can either
benefit from producing it or we'll look elsewhere (bootlegs).  It's not a
matter of wanting to screw Rush (because bootleg purchases don't cost them
one dime) or a matter of wanting to "give Neil a kick in the gut".  It's a
matter of desiring to listen to the product of their creativity.  If buying
bootlegs is not the sincerest form of flattery, I don't know what is.


From: "colin burroughs" 
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 09:03:21 PDT
Subject: Re: Territories effect

 Most of the first lyrics are like that.


From: (Derek Tetlow)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 11:17:41 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Re: embarassing

I actually bought a "Firehouse" cd back in the earlier days of my
college experience.  They're a real cheeseball early 90's attempt at
heavy metal.  It was so hideously bad that I think I gave it away about
three weeks after I bought it. It's my #1 "I Can't Believe I Actually
Bought This CD" CD.

Derek Tetlow
Streamline Sports Video
"Simplification through Modernization"


From: (Christopher W Lindsay)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 14:03:49 -0400
Subject: Masked Rider & Shock Rock 2

I just finished "The Masked Rider."  It was better than I
thought it'd be.  It wasn't 100% cycling, the debate was 
interesting, and so was the discussion of Aristotle's stuff.

A coupla weeks ago I sold 5 copies of Shock Rock II.
I have received three payments:  from Russell,
Ryan, and Tracy.  The other two have yet to pay.
I didn't put your names up for a reason.  Please contact
me.  Don't be an Aaron Drake!


From: Brian Robinson 
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 15:33:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Naked man on 2112 Album Cover (back)

Re: i sort of agree with what you say about the evil innocence thing,
but 2112 doesn't have a naked guy in front of the pentagram.

The Red Star/Naked Man combination was on the back cover of the original
vinal 2112 album.  If you look at the remastered 2112 you will see the
original album art work.


From: (z z z)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 18:44:35 -0500
Subject: rush in hall of fame

as far as rush getting into the hall of fame, it won't happen for awhile
yet.  at least for the rush we know and love.  because a band has to have
released at least one album that is 25+ years old.  and since rush's
first album with neil was released in '74, rush can't be inducted into
the hall of fame for about a year yet.

"If at first you don't succeed, it's probably someone else's fault."


From: Rich and Ellen Lafond 
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:25:53 -0400
Subject: Here's an idea: Big Band Rush

With the recent music scene splash of Big Band type music, and since we
know that Neil holds a place in his heart for this style, I thought it
would be great if Rush could collaborate with other musicians on a the next
studio CD with a couple songs of this genre. Afterall, on today's radio,
anything goes.


   **  From the Desktop of:  **
   ** Rich and Ellen Lafond  ** 
   **  **


From: Mike Denney 
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 02:33:41 -0500
Subject: Rush DVD

When is the first Rush DVD coming out?


Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 09:58:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Neil vs. Carter  revisited

I have seen both drummers in concert numerous times.  Neil is a much
better technical drummer, but Carter seems to be able to play
a drum part to anything and make it flow.  I like playing along
to neil because he is much more technical and it's easier for me
to pick up what he is doing, but Carter is such a different style, for
me its tough.  What I am trying to say is that Neil is faster and
more precise, I think Carter has more style.


From: (P L C)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 22:23:03 -0400
Subject: Live album thoughts

Hey all,

As far as the live album goes, I think we should be glad that they are
coming out with something.  Personally I was hoping they would put Big
Money on the live album from the TFE tour, but we can all say "Hey, why
don't they put on this or that."  Just enjoy the anticpation of a new



From: Richard Mosteller 
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:49:07 -0400
Subject: RU SH

 First post here...
Seems to me, thinking out loud, that it really doesn't matter to me what they 
put on a new live album. It must mean something to them what they put on it. 
I think that I am lucky that they are even putting something out with all 
the stuff that has been going on and will feel even more honored if they do 
put another studio album together. Beggers can't be choosy..."the mirror 
always lies"


From: (Paul J Ferrara)
Date: Sat, 22 Aug 1998 00:05:25 -0400
Subject: ummmm is this thing on? 


it seems that there is a whole lot of discussion / complaints / raving /
ranting / fuming / etc. about the "new" rush live album. I am just as
excited about it as the next guy, but i have learned to take the
playlists with a grain of salt. I will only belive anything released by
Atlantic/anthem/mercury. I don't know if any of you were here before t4e
got released (i wasnt) but was there this sort of commotion then to? Did
someone publish a playlist and was it accurate? Where their complaints
and rantings? Look back and compare (particularly about the playlist, if
the one that was "published" wasn't accurate what makes you think they
won't do it again?). And for the bit about "i want this song on there"
that is why you have the original albums! There really isnt much
difference unless you are actually at the concert... and it you want all
the tracks on one "medium" that is why god invented tapes/cd-r/minidiscs.
make your own cd with the tracks _you_ want. Until the prestigious day, i
will stick my head in the sand until i have the cd's in my hot little

   [ This brought up something I was thinking about the other day... this is
     the FIRST time the digest has been through a live album release. Imagine
     that, a mailing list that's been around for nearly 10 years is still able
     to have a "first" of sorts...  As far as TFE goes, yes we had a track 
     listing, and yes it was accurate. We have also had them for RTB & CP.
                                                                  : rush-mgr ]


[worf, raise the shields]
[aye sir, shields holding at 90% and prepared to deflect flames]

Mr. Paul J. Ferrara -- Toms River, NJ
"Si Hoc Legere Scis Nimium Eruditionis Habes"
Give Blood - Play Hockey


Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998 11:25:12 +0100
Subject: TOOL: rivaling RUSH

>Date: Fri, 14 Aug 1998 22:38:40 EDT
>Subject: TOOL:  rivaling RUSH
>Ahoy fellow Rushians...
>I saw TOOL perform last night, August 13, at Red Rocks Amphitheater in Denver.
>And I must say that I believe that TOOL is one of the bands taking progressive
>rock into the next century.
>Fear not, my fellows, PROGRESSIVE ROCK IS NOT DEAD!!!

Arbon, I agree with you on your comments on Tool -- Especially your

On the other hand, I don't believe that Tool are rivals to Rush as your
subject indicates ... I'd like to think that Tool is one of the bands that
have succeded the most in "carrying on the tradition of progressive rock"
while maintaining their own distinctive sound.

And yes, they are weird! One of my problems with Tool is that I find their
lyrics incomprehensible. Even though the lyrics "sound cool" and some
snippets are of such nature that they can be quoted (!) , I have still to
discover some sense in most of their lyrics!

Is this a major difference between Rush and Tool?

     Harald Wikeroy


From: "Chad Werner" 
Date: Mon, 24 Aug 1998  7:47 -0600
Subject: Exactly My Point!

     Regarding the live album controversy, someone said this:
     "PLEASE STOP **WHINING** ABOUT THE SETLIST! There is nothing you can 
     do to change it -- I can't believe the EGO of some people!! (esp. the 
     guy who wrote a letter stating his own setlist, and could they please 
     look at it before they press the cd?--Jeeze!!) Rush, Atlantic, and SRO 
     Anthem, or whoever is responsible for the content, is going to do 
     whatever they damnwell please! DEAL WITH IT!!"
     YES! You are absolutely correct! For any of you out there that paid 
     any attention to my "consumer/producer" comments from last week, this 
     is what I was talking about. There is nothing we CAN do about the 
     setlist & that is really too bad. Say what you will, but this isn't 
     the way it HAS to be. However, I AM going to buy the live album 
     because I know there are some things that make it a worthwhile 
     purchase (Bravado live!). I don't like the methods which Rush & their 
     associates have chosen to do business with the fans, but I AM OK with 
     the idea. I have come to terms with it. If you really have a 
     fundamental problem with it, please make an actual statement: Don't 
     buy it. I think that a lot of people have been surprised with the 
     setlist & they have been expressing their discontent. That is, I'm 
     sorry to say, what this list is for. We are discussing Rush, which is 
     what we should be doing. Should we ignore the new release? Should we 
     lie & say that we are euphorically waiting on this fabulous new live 
     album? And, if you've seen a couple of concerts from the last 8 years, 
     can you honestly say that you're NOT A BIT surprised as SOME of the 
     setlist choices? When they pulled out "Analog Kid" on the Counterparts 
     tour, I was like, "oh yeah, this is going to be on the next live one!" 
     Nothing from a whole album? We are just taken aback & are bringing it 
     up as such. Please, let's not stifle free expression. Buy it or don't. 
     Make your own mind up.


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