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Subject: 01/21/99 - The National Midnight Star #2166
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List posting/followup:
Administrative matters:

(Administrative postings to the posting address will be ignored!)


         The National Midnight Star, Number 2166

                  Thursday, 21 Jan 1999

Today's Topics:
        Fish Islands .......... Fastest Guitarist
             fish islands--not a correction!
               Re: TNMS #2164 Eric Barbrady
                    Geddy's Signature
                Stop it you're killing me
            Yngwie vs. Alex - Are you serious?
          A man must learn to gently dominate...
            Re: Don't Tread on Me, you hoser! 
                 Count Yourselves lucky!
               Primus, and fast guitarists!
          Conservative Rush Fans are Hypocrites
                   Laser disc's and DVD
                     Guitarist thread
                Past their experation date
                    Musical priorities
                      Fish Islands.
                     Rush fan at WDFN
                Re: In defence of Yngwie 
             Re: The Greatest Guitar Player 
                   Neil at Great Woods
              I am listening to DS too much
             can't we all just get along? ;)
                      VINYL FOR SALE
                Re: Best Ever Live Albums
        re:Conservatives / Ayn Rand's Objectivism
                    weighing decisions
                   Fastest - Shmastest
                  Re: Great Live Albums
                    great live albums
                      RE: Underrated
                     Time Stand Still
                    collins vs. peart

From: (The RUSH Fans Digest Manager)
Date: Thu Jan 21 10:40:17 PST 1999
Subject: Administrivia

Rockline... what can I say, the questions get lamer every time they're on!

 - rush-mgr


From: "Jon Dahms" 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 23:28:54 -0000
Subject: Fish Islands .......... Fastest Guitarist


I don't know what was funnier, the original post or all the helpful

Don't worry folks, a supertanker full of Irony is leaving the UK tonight
and will make US landfall in a few days...... go help yourselves.. it's

Actually, there probably are some Fish Islands somewhere, any Geography
nuts want to take this and run with it?


Hey guys, I play the guitar... my band even had a CD out on Roadrunner once
but I am like severely bad when it comes to theory and technique. Alex
Lifeson is the guy who inspired me to keep going when all the Steve Vai's
of the world descended on us from the planet Berklee! I just strum away
finding new chords and arpeggios (not archipelago's, the Fish Islands are
probably formed from an archipelago) and I have a lot of fun doing so BUT,
and it's a BIG BIG BUT! I agree with the guy who rates John Petrucci from
Dream Theater as No.1 guitarist on the face of the planet at the moment.
Not only can he shred but his technique and taste cannot be faulted. The
guy is a guitar god and I am sure Alex would agree.... check out some of
the Lerxt chords he uses, albeit with more dirt on the sound... rush
influences are everywhere in Dream Theater!!!

Goodnight from the Fish Islands


From: Scott Finkel 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 15:24:23 -0800
Subject: fish islands--not a correction!

Hey! I used to live in the Fish Islands! (aka Kwajalein) I always thought
they were singing "fish-eye lends"--and it never made any sense to me until
now....thanks, dude!!!  =D

if you corrected this original post, or thought the post-er was serious,
you need an attitude adjustment.




From: "Wayne Tapia" 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:11:38 -0800
Subject: Re: TNMS #2164 Eric Barbrady

THIS IS NOT A FLAME... so hold your fire

On Jan. 13, Eric Barbrady posed the question, "did anyone else notice that
Geddy's voice is a little weak on some of the tracks? "

It's kind of funny that he mentioned that, because I was talking with some
freinds about that very thing a few nights ago. They were being quite
critical about it, much to my dismay. Personally, it's the little
imperfections and "flub-ups" that make live albums better for me. When I go
to listen to a live recording, I want to hear the performance as it was, not
a studio-enhanced or "repaired" version. When I hear a voice crack, or a
guitar string bust, it adds to the pure "rawness" and human-ness of the
recording. I was so glad to hear that Rush left in a bunch of the "mistakes"
on DS. I think its a better compilation because of that, and I respect the
three of them even more as artists.
After all, it is rock music - it's supposed to be a little frayed around the

Adios nachos grande del fuego-
Wayne Tapia
Progressive Rock Lives in Seattle -


From: Tim Rockstad 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:08:29 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Geddy's Signature

I managed to get an autograph from Geddy back in the mid-Eighties when
he was at a baseball game in Wichita the night before they performed.
It's really just a scribble, meaning nothing to anyone but me.  But I
was wondering if anyone else has his autograph and if it is in fact
unreadable, or if it was a nasty trick by Geddy to get rid of me.  I
don't really care either way, but it would be interesting to know. 


From: Pete 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:08:23 -0500
Subject: Stop it you're killing me

>From: "Bryan 'Max' Dobberstein" 
>Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 17:23:24 -0600
>Subject: Fish Islands
>Do the Fish Islands really exist?  You know, the ones mentioned in
>Limelight, "Living in the Fish Islands."  What do they have to do with
>the rest of the song?

This is right up there with the guy who thought Rush played 2112 only in
Boston and the other guy who thought Geddy's bass solo in Driven was only
on the spur of the moment when Alex's guitar malfunctioned.


From: "Carl Fulli" 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:37:20 -0800
Subject: Yngwie vs. Alex - Are you serious?

>I have a load of Al di Meola records that I like from the technical
>standpoint but=20
>he does not much for me on the emotional side. Yngwie, for me has both. = He
>improvises great convincing melodic solos - an amazing ability, but = most
>get caught up in the fact that he plays super fast and don't listen to = the
>content: Alex is obviously not as good TECHNICALLY as Yngwie but his >forte is
>the emotional side. WheRush n he does play fast, he does so more in the =
Page vein,
>not as precisely picked, extraneous noise, but because it is only used=20
>sparingly, it is more effective.

Where as yes, Yngwie is a very good technical player, he couldn't write =
a song to save his life.  He can do some amazing things with the guitar =
and I do feel has a lot of emotion at times but that is all in his =
solos.  To me a great guitar player will not focus on leads only, but =
use the entire guitar to express himself.  I agree that Yngwie is a more =
technically talented guitar player than Alex but, he is no where near =
Alex in terms of songwriting, which in itself is based highly on =
emotion.  I think anyone who wants to can become a great guitar player =
(technically speaking), which to me is no big deal , but to be a =
musician you have to be able to write a good song, something that Alex =
does far better than most of his contemporaries.  And then there is the =
subject of taste, which Alex has plenty of.  Don't you think that after =
the first few leads it's all just noodling?  Why do you think people =
love Jimmy Page or Eric Clapton - it's not just because they can play a =
bitchin solo, it's because they write good songs.  And songs are what =
are timeless, not solos.

Carl D. Fulli


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 18:59:09 -0500
Subject: A man must learn to gently dominate...

Hey Rush freaks-

Yeah, I screwed up leaving "Animate" off my list of love songs.  I 
suppose we could move "Time Stand Still" to the first side and start off 
side two with "Animate"; "Emotion Detector" should probably follow 
something anyway, it's not really a "side opener."  SIDE OPENER?? :)

Thanks for the chords to "Show don't tell" Cyg.

To the guy who thought "Fish eye-lens" was "Fish Islands," don't feel 
bad, we've all missed Geddy's words.  Even if we did refer to the album 
cover, the way somebody suggested, we could be in danger:  may I please 
refer everyone to their "Permanant Waves" inner sleeve, where it is 
written "if you choose not to decide, you cannot have made a choice..."

I like the loose, barroom jazzy feel to DS's version of "Animate" better 
than CP's version, which is faster and heavier.  And I like the sudden 
force of Alex's solo, which sounds almost like Clapton...very 

Has anyone heard Alex's work on that "Canadian Guitar Heroes" or 
whatever it was, with Rik Emmett, et. al from the 80s?  Nice and 

I liked the opinions on guitarists being offered.  The guy from Dream 
Theater is hot, no doubt, and the drummer in that band is awfully 
proficient too. 

Let's not forget Robert Fripp, Stanley Jordan and Les Paul.  :)


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 16:54:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: Don't Tread on Me, you hoser! 

> From: "Krista Kokko" 
> Subject: Don't Tread on Me, you hoser! <-- said in my best Geddy Lee voice
> I really hate discussing politics here, but I had to respond to this:
> > I am quite liberal and I have always enjoyed Rush and the way that
> > their music stands for personal responsibility, independence,
> > and rights.  
> As you used in your post the term Republican, as in Republican=conservative,
> I'll use liberal=Democrat.  

So you'll generalize just as well.  I'm way "liberal" but 
not a Democrat.  Call me a progressively liberal pragmatic
capitalist if you must label me.

> > Perhaps I just don't get it.
> No you don't.  You are generalizing, which is what started this whole debate
> in the first place.  Part of the problem with political debates is that not
> everyone perceives issues the same way.  The same can be said about music.  


> "Prime Mover" tells me not to believe the polarized mainstream liberal media.

Interesting.  I've not heard this before, at least that
I can recall.  Looking over the lyrics, I'm afraid I don't 
see the least, not beyond the obvious 
paragraph; no deeper meaning than that IMO shallow one.  
At the risk of flaunting my ignorance, would you care to 

BTW, the "media" is not "liberal," rather, they're sleazy
and greedy.  They'll feed us whatever they think we'll 
buy.  If they're so liberal, why didn't they hype Linda
Tripp's 1992 accusations of then-President Bush's 
extra-marital affairs?  Why kow-tow so readily to the 

> Now Hillary Clinton, that's one person I could see frothing at the mouth to
> "Prime Mover".  

Again, I don't see it.

> And "Freewill" is about freewill, making your own choices,
> pure and simple.  

Not exactly.  It describes the superiority of freewill
over predestination, by illustrating the laziness and 
complacency and lack of accountability or 
responsibility that predestination or religious
superstition fosters.  You Republican types are always
going on about accountability and such.

> Please do not try to twist the purity of Rush into a
> political forum, it just won't work.

I disagree.  Look at all the fun we're having now!

> Cheers from Colorado, inaugurating its first Republican Governor in 26 years!

And from Oregon, inaugurating its first re-elected
Democrat governor in 90-something years!  


From: Peter McPhail 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:03:36 +1300
Subject: Count Yourselves lucky!

Kia-Ora Fellow Rushians

I finally managed to get a hold of DS here in New Zealand!
The official release date for this part of the world was yesterday, 19-Jan.
Over two month behind the rest of the world. Sometimes living in paradise
has its drawbacks.
Some points : the pressing is the European version, and I have to say that
the packaging is of better quality than the US issue of DS which I've had
since last year when I picked-up my copy in San Diego when I was over on
holiday (thanks to John, Miriam, & Emma, the best buds a guy could have).
The Euro packaging has a gloss finish rather than a matt finish, and the
cardboard offers better protection to the discs as it's heavier. The down
side is that it cost me US$30 which is expensive, most CD come in about
US$10 or less.

Keep on Rushing


From: Caroline in the City 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 99 20:27:21 -0500
Subject: Primus, and fast guitarists!

Hello again!

Wow, two posts in as many weeks from a usual lurker. First of all, I'd 
like to say thanks to those of you who took the time to respond to my 
plea for a cool Rush-related license plate for my car. I'm still 
searching...if any of you have any more suggestions, I'm still open to 
them! What do you guys think of RDBRCHTA?

Someone mentioned that Les was showing off his Geddy Lee autographed 
guitar in Primus's new video, "Videoplasty." I'm also a regular poster of 
the bull board (there are quite a few other Rush fans 
there, too!), and I learned another interesting fact about Alex Lifeson 
on that site. A new Primus trivia game has just been posted on the board, 
and I played it Friday during some slow time at work. As the story goes, 
one night Primus's new drummer, Brain, had a little too much to drink, 
and our boy Alex took it upon himself to shave all of Brain's hair off. 
Alex didn't stop there. He also stripped Brain naked, so when Brain woke 
up, he was bald and without clothes. Bob Cock used actual facts when he 
put this game together! If you don't believe it! It's a lot of 

To add to the "fastest guitarists" thread, I've got to mention Les 
Claypool, the bassist from Primus. You haven't seen speed 'til you've 
seen Les's fingers fly when he's playing "Tommy the Cat" live. It's 
absolutely amazing. And as for lead guitarists, I think Eric Johnson is 
the king of speed! He doesn't sacrifice note quality for speed, either. 
Each note he plays is perfectly crafted. He's my man! I love him! I truly 
think he's a genius. If you still haven't heard of him, shame shame!! :-)

Hope you're all having a great week so far! Keep those license plate 
suggestions coming!!

"What I've seen, I saw because I wanted to believe. If we look too
 hard, maybe we become mad. But if we continue to look, we become
 liberated. And we come awake as if from a dream..." --Fox Mulder 


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 20:35:01 EST
Subject: Conservative Rush Fans are Hypocrites

"But Change Is."  (The orgasmic climax to Tom Sawyer, arguably the best Rush
How could any Rush fan be a conservative?  They would have to be either deaf
or unable to understand English.  Or they lived in some fairy-tale land in
their head.  I thought only the truly educated people were liberals.  (A
formal education does not necessarily indicate a true education - I'm just
speaking of a simple realist say, who does not live according to a lie)  While
I realize that true liberation comes in death only, it is important to live
and let live as freely as possible, its the only life we've got.  
I've got a question, does death justify life?  Of course without death we
would not realize we were alive, not counting our own death say, no one knows
what happens then, just the death of those around us.  Does doubt justify
faith?  Surely you cannot have faith without doubt.  Anyone like Jethro Tull's
"Aqualung"?  Ian Anderson (on christianity) - "In your pomp and all your glory
you're a poorer man than me, as you lick the boots of death born out of fear."
Anyone here like Gentle Giant? Those guys rock.  Anyone know if Geddy, Alex,
or Neil (ha ha, we're on a first name basis!) were influenced by them?  Is
Geddy Lee Jewish?

Living the infinite jest with love,
Liberal, existentialist, realist, senior in college studying English, Music,
and Philosophy


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:16:52 EST
Subject: Laser disc's and DVD

For those of you who care, how many people want a Different Stages DVD?  If
you said no, have you ever heard Music in 5.1, or DTS.  It is amazing.  I work
for a laser disc and dvd store so I get to sample it a lot.  I have ozzy on
dvd it sounds so amazing.  Its also done very cheaply that's what's amazing.
Imagine if they had more money to create it better.  I also have metalica's
new dvd.  The sound just blows away the typical c.d.  My point is I need a
rush dvd.  The options on it would be amazing, such as interviews and trivia.
A big problem is polygram has folded in the DVD market, but they will be back.
We need rush to start remastering some older concerts.  Right now the two
laser disc's available are Grace under pressure tour and Chronicles.  Both
disc sound bad compared to a modern laser disc or DVD.  If you are interested
in those disc's my store can get them.  Email me and I can tell you more. King
Crimson is releasing a DVD on January 26, it will be in DTS sound. well,
thanks for reading my rambles,


From: George Live at Wembley 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:03:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Guitarist thread

Ok, we seem to have decided that Al Di Meola, Yngwie "Yingwee"
Malmsteen, John Petrucci, Nuno Bettencourt, John MacLaughlin (I keep
thinking "Issue Numba Fowa - President Clinton's proposal on...), etc.
But who (other than our hero Lerxst) would you say has the best tone?
Who has made you wonder how they got such a wonderful sound out of
their guitar? My nominees:
1) Stevie Ray Vaughan. Best Blues tone. Ever.
2) David Gilmour. Listen to "Comfortably Numb" and you'll know what I
3) James Hetfield. His guitar sound reminds me of an unlucky knight in
a dragon's jaws. Metallic, crunchy, heavy, yet meaty and organic.
4) The Edge. Not only does he get that lovely ringing sound, he's also
gotten some really nice distortion ("Gone"), great wah effects
("Zooropa"), and even some good totally un-guitar-like sounds ("Numb").
5) Brian May. He really does sound like a stringed orchestra.


"You are like a hurricane - There's calm in your eye..."
                     -Neil Young, "Like a Hurricane"
Visit my home page at
Our policy is to first seek candidates from within the company.
If none is qualified, you must use a sock puppet.  - Catbert


From: "John A. Tyler" 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 21:09:49 -0600
Subject: Past their experation date

In response to Dogyears post, 

If the boys are past their prime then I can't wait until I'm past mine!  

In fact I might tattoo yesterday's date on my butt and what for the
exponential increase in my playing ability.


(I know that he was pointing out how stupid it was to call the boys past
their prime so don't think that I am Flaming him, I agree with him.)

If you like music come and check out the Voir Dire website.
Site Maintained by John Tyler


Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:11:05, -0500
Subject: Musical priorities

Hello, Rush people 

This "who's fastest" thread misses the point. Technique on any 
instrument is only a means to an end. The end is expressiveness. 

Guitar players tend to judge a player by his or her technique because 
it' a measurable, tangible standard. The fact that we have decided to 
concentrate on  one aspect of technique-speed, betrays most rock 
guitarists as not bad musicians, but shallow, narrow ones.

No less a chopsmeister than Vernon Reid was quoted by Guitar Player 
as saying "More notes vursus less is missing the point. It's about 
phrasing and timing."

Phrasing and timing...

Think of the great rock guitarists: Clapton, Beck, Page, Hendrix, 
Santana, Eric Johnson, Eddie Van Halen, Lukather,  Alex Lifeson, 
Steve Howe, etc--each one with a readily identifiable style rich in 
melodic and rhythmic invention, and as different from each other as 
night and day. Why?

Phrasing and timing...

Move onto the electric blues gods like Stevie Ray Vaughn, the Kings, 
Albert Collins, Charlie Baty. Each one uses the same scalar 
vocabulary as the next, but they each sound different. Why?

Phrasing and timing...

Fusioneers like Robben Ford, Frank Zappa, Scott Henderson, Mike Stern,
 and Trey Anastasio and none of them are alike. Why?

Phrasing and timing...

Think of any great Jazz musician (something everyone reading this 
post might want to do), like 'Trane, Bird, Duke Ellington, Louis 
Armstrong, Charlie Christian, Benny Goodman, Miles Davis (the list is 
endless). Different instruments, different eras, what do they have in 
common? What did they devlop a unique, personal sense of?

Phrasing and timing...

Anybody can learn to run scales, patterns and arpeggios. Many have 
learned to do it really fast and cleanly. But its development of 
phrasing and timing that allows a player to develop a style. It's 
what allows all those scales make musical sense. Its what makes the 
difference between musical substance and a finger excercise.

I don't listen to Al DiMeola anymore because I outgrew my fascination 
with the sound of playing cards in my bicycle spokes when I was 

I don't like Yngwie because, IMHO, his vibrato sounds like someone 
masturbating with a rubber band.

Speed doesn't interest me. What does?

Phrasing and timing...

Play inventively and expressively, and as always--practice, practice, 




From: Kurt Smith 
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 22:17:15 -0800
Subject: Fish Islands.

Hello all-

The "Fish Islands" mentioned in "Limelight" are an allusion to Neil's
younger days, when he would spend summers in Camp Rahai. In his memoirs
he mentioned feeling "trapped" there.

Love, Kurt


From: Christopher W Lindsay 
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 23:17:53 -0500
Subject: Rush fan at WDFN

I was listening to sports radio station WDFN, and one of the hosts
said there was an engineer that had  "a Rush screen saver"

Is he on this list?

"Fate is just the weight of circus dances"


From: Jon Lane 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 01:52:46 -0330
Subject: 4ths

> I don't play guitar so my info is a bit uninformed, but I read a guitar mag
> article back in 89/90 that said something like, "A fourth is a fourth of
> course of course.  Lifeson uses 4th century B.C. quartal chords to create
> 21st century sounds."  So there you have it, quartal chords, whatever that
> means.
> Jason

I remember reading something, perhaps the same article, where they call
those chords, " QuartalLifesonRushophonic Chords ".

I thought that was the coolest thing I'd ever read at the time!!

Keep on Rushing,

Jon Lane

"Chords that build high , like a mountain......."


From: Slim Jim 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:11:15 +0000
Subject: Re: In defence of Yngwie 

"Heath, Martin" wrote:

> Rush content: Alex is obviously not as good TECHNICALLY as Yngwie but his
> forte is the emotional side.

Well I must say it's not obvious to me - what do we mean by 
technically here?  Personally I think that Alex is one of the most 
talented guitar players alive.  Yngwie's 'music' is just repetitive 
scales, played fast.  The finger gymnastics are impressive, but 



From: Slim Jim 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:13:58 +0000
Subject: Re: The Greatest Guitar Player 

Michael Allan Leach wrote:
> January 12, 1999
> To all Rush fans,
> I must make another one of my humble, but true statements: John Petrucci
> from Dream Theater is the best guitar player alive right now.

Nah.  Even worse than Yngwie, mate.

Slim :)


Date: Wed, 20 Jan 99 08:46:54 -0500
Subject: Neil at Great Woods

     In TNMS #2164, Jeff Robinson wrote:
       "I have a question for anyone that was at the Great Woods show
       (6/23/97)during the "An Evening with Rush" tour. I distinctly        
       remember Neil having a brace, or something, on one of his wrists. I  
       think it was the left wrist. Can anyone out there who was at the     
       show confirm or dispute this. I can't fully remember, but I'm pretty 
       sure he did. I was surprised to hear that 2112 was put on the        
       Different Stages CD, but it was still a killer show."
     I'm pretty sure he was wearing a brace/air cast on his elbow, not 
     wrist. The most likely explanation is tendonitis. Probably not 
     entirely unexpected either, given the fact that we're talking about a 
     mid-40's man, banging away for 3 hours a night, 3-4 nights a week, 
     using a new drumming style that radically changes the way he positions 
     and uses his left arm.
     - Dave


From: "Will Holt" 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:00:32 -0500
Subject: I am listening to DS too much

More DS observations:
  "Unplugged" version of CttH is great
  There is a guy yelling "Professor!" on the left hand side at about =
2:55 of TRM-1997
  The first track of DS disc one has two index marks to mark the intro =
as being separate from Dreamline
  Sounds great using the "Live" setting of the "Music" mode on my =
receiver.  Kind of a matrixed surround.  It sounds awful in Pro-Logic =
  Favorite bass performance by Geddy: tie between Force Ten (esp. solo =
section) and LTTA! (esp. the end)
  I wonder if Neil had input on which show to put on the album for his =
I have also been listening to RtB alot esp The Big Wheel and Neurotica.  =
I ignored TBW in the past but am now discovering it for the first time.  =
YBYL is also a great song especially the "Just another gypsy..." part.  =
Great album!  Still need to "get" Face Up.  It still doesn't sound that =
great to me.  It will...

Geddy's greatest gift to Rush fans has to be the remasters.  The =
improvement in sound quality is astounding especially when listening in =
Dolby ProLogic.  The old versions sounded horrible displaying no =
surround effects in ProLogic.



From: "Catherine Brissette" 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:39:54 PST
Subject: can't we all just get along? ;)

Hey everybody

Obligatory Rush content-- I had a shitty commute yesterday (nation's 
worst traffic, tied with LA and SF! woohoo!), a lousy time parking, the 
gym was crowded and I couldn't get a locker and I was ready to explode 
until I put on my headphones and heard the sweet sound of Force Ten 
washing over me...ahhh....Rush cures all.

Can we please gut the politicking? I've been guilty of it too, and I'm 
sorry. It has no place here. Let's face it, you'll never convince the 
conservatives to become liberals, the Democrats to become Republicans, 
the anarchists to become communists...let's just drop it, please. I just 
want to talk about Rush. If you want to flame me or chat with me about 
my political or other views, let's take it to email.


rational romantic mystic cynical idealist...


From: "McCarthy, Gene" 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:01:32 -0500

Hi all,

I'm uncluttering my apartment and I came across a couple of things that
may be of interest to some of you.

I have Archives and GUP, both on vinyl.  They are in fine condition (8
or 9 out of ten), and I'd like to offer them for sale.  I want them to
have a nice, loving home, and I guess this digest would be the place to

I'm asking for $35 for the both of them (that includes shipping).

If this seems steep, e-mail me and perhaps we can haggle.

Gene McCarthy


From: (David Whiteman)
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:38:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Best Ever Live Albums

Patrick Vella wrote:

> Can anyone recommend some GREAT live albums worth picking up?
> What am I missing? :-)

Here's one for ya:

Dream Theater - Once in a Livetime

This is a new album, but they are influenced by a lot of 70s bands,
including Rush, Yes, Elton John, Pink Floyd, Queen, Dixie Dregs, UK,
Kansas, and Black Sabbath, and also newer bands like Fates Warning and
Metallica.  Check them out...


David Whiteman
Applied Reasoning
whiteman AT AppliedReasoning DOT com
ICQ# 12178974


From: Mike Kerns 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:25:03 -0800
Subject: re:Conservatives / Ayn Rand's Objectivism


With the talk recently of conservatives "frothing at the mouth" over
Nobody's Hero, Freewill, and the philosophical expressions in Rush's
music, I had to speak up.

The term "conservative" has been rather effectively yet wrongly vilified
by the American media and certain politicians.  It's no surprise that
some people are afraid to admit to being conservative.

I'm not one of those people.  :)

The philosophy of Ayn Rand (Objectivism) is a conservative philosophy
which bears no resemblance whatsoever to modern socialist liberalism. 
Most scholars of her line of reasoning label her as an
arch-conservative, a "conservative's conservative" if you will.  One of
the best online sources of her work and thought (other than her books)
is at:

I find nothing that is in Rush' lyrics to be offensive.  Nobody's Hero? 
Suffering disease and criminal action against your friends and family is
a huge tragedy, Neil expresses these feelings very well.  Freewill? 
Show me a liberal who believes in freedom of action for **ALL** people,
not just themselves.  Totem Pole?  An open mind taking in experiences
from many facets of human experience is great!  2112?  The freedom of
expression that dies with our main character is a tragic consequence of
the liberal socialist repression he suffers under.

Like Hanstones said, 

> "Prime Mover" tells me not to believe the polarized 
> mainstream liberal media.

Now for your penance, you must play three Prime Movers, one Totem Pole
and a Freewill.  :)  (Sorry, a little inside Catholic humor there.)

With my tail between my ears, 



From: Scott Finkel 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:11:08 -0800
Subject: weighing decisions

Let's see, for the $57 price of the import DS release, I could also get:
 - 4 $15 CDs
 - 8 $7 used CDs
 - a mighty sack of chronic 
      (sorry, policeman-listmember--don't hunt me down!)
 - a new heater-core for my 59 chevy
 - approx. 100 blank CD-Rs
 - several pairs of jeans, or some cheap basketball shoes

the list goes on and on. Don't get me wrong--I'm sure its worth the money.
I'm a devoted rush-nut like the rest of you. That's just a REALLY steep
price. Even for an import. Wish I could spare the change!

Rush Early, and Often,

btw, I was originally going to agree with some of the people who said that
the production/sound on DS was shitty. But then I listened to it on my good
stereo. And again with headphones. My initial thoughts were dead wrong.
This disc IS the best sounding live offering from Rush to date. ATWAS is
second only in terms of the [recording/mastering/mixing] technology
available at the time.

Contrary to every other rush album I've ever bought, this one didn't have
me overly excited when I first got it. I didn't rush to listen to it [pun
not intended but funny anyway], rather I leisurely kind of strolled over
and acquainted myself with it.  I've heard most of these songs live before.
Yes, I wanted to hear the new renditions, but I just wasn't bursting to get
at it. But now its happily in -heavy- rotation in my listening. 

Nobody's Hero made me cry. Analog Kid is a jewel. And of course the
HammersmithOdeon show is like getting a free grade-A soundboard-bootleg.
Just awesome!

but enough preaching to the the Rockline show going to be
available on the NMS website? Or elsewhere? I may not be able to listen or
get home to pop a tape in!!


From: "Wayne Tapia" 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:22:39 -0800
Subject: Fastest - Shmastest

I'd like to say (as a guitarist of 20+ years) WHO GIVES A CRAP about who the
fastest guitarist is??? I'm sorry, but this thread resembles the juvinile
ravings in the"letters" section of Creem Magazine. What the heck does any of
it pertain to Rush?

I would bet you a truckload of money that Yngwie wouldn't give a rat's ass
if everybody said that Petrucci is a "faster" player (and vice-versa).
Trying to decide something like that is too subjective to come up with a
mutual agreement on, so please just give it up and quit wasting download
time on a futile arguement!

I apologize if this sounded like a flame, it isn't intended to be. Bickering
over people's art just pisses me off.
W. Tapia


From: "Carl Fulli" 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:48:29 -0800

>Hi folks
>Haven't written for a while - but I'd like to get into a drummers = debate
>here.  Having loved Rush for nearly 20 years I'd like to know why Neil = Peart
>can't loosen up on his kit.  I mean if you see him live everything = seems so
>intense.  OK - so he's concentrating but there must come a point in his
>playing where he handled the percussion without thinking.  Phil Collins = on
>the other hand is so ridiculously relaxed at the kit it's = unbelievable!!!  I
>personally think that Collins is technically the better drummer - = utilizing
>more percussive sounds from electronic kits etc.  Peart makes drumming = look
>difficult - Collins eradicates any problems about drumming.
>What do you think?????

I think you're absolutely WRONG.  What Neil Peart does with the drums IS =
difficult.  That's why he is concentrating or at least it seems that =
way.  To be that good you have to concentrate to a certain degree, but =
have you ever thought that maybe that is just his natural expression =
while playing?  I don't think he has to concentrate and I do think he is =
loose.  Phil Collins couldn't carry Neil's sticks let alone be a =
technically better drummer.  And if you've ever truly listened to Rush =
you would know that Neil has used various amounts of instruments for =
percussion.  Also, if you've read/heard one of Neil's interviews he =
doesn't consider himself just a drummer but a percussionist. He also =
incorporates a lot of cultural influences in his drumming.  In the end =
this is a ridiculous debate because you can't compare someone who left =
their drum kit  to sing Sussudio (forgive the spelling) with one of the =
greatest drummers who has ever lived.

Carl D. Fulli


From: "bytor" 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:45:37 -0600
Subject: Re: Great Live Albums

Taking Patrick Vella's cue on the live album thing, I thought I'd throw in
a few meanderings on the subject...

When I first cut my rock and roll teeth back in the mid-70's, that was the
age of the "double-live" albums.  In fact, I think the first half dozen or
so records I ever bought back then were live albums.  Kiss "Alive" was
indeed the very first album I ever got.  My sister had Peter Frampton
"Comes Alive" as well as Bob Seger's "Live Bullet".  Then a friend of mine
turned me onto Rush for the first time with "All The World's A Stage" and
that pretty much clinched it for me.

As time has gone on, however, live albums really don't do a whole lot for
me anymore...with the exception of "Different Stages", of course!  So the
following list pretty much reflects my early years of live album

Queen - "Live Killers"  (absolutely awesome album...probably the best live
album I've ever heard)

Rush - I like 'em all with DS being the best followed by ATWAS, ASOH, and
the sterile ESL bringing up the rear

Ted Nugent - "Double Live Gonzo"  (Sweaty Teddy completely cranks on this

Aerosmith - "Live Bootleg"  (back when Tyler & Co actually kicked ass...raw
& raunchy record!)

Kiss - "Alive"  (while the production isn't all that great, this album is
solely responsible for weaning me off of the AM radio pop staples like
Elton John and the Bay City Rollers)

Rick Derringer - "Live"  (you old timers out there might recall this little
gem...very obscure record, but definitely worth tracking down...believe it
or not, Rick Derringer is one hell of a gee-tar player)

Foghat - "Live"  (another closet classic...ever notice how "Honey Hush"
sounds exactly like "Train Kept A Rollin'?)

REO Speedwagon - "You Get What You Play For"  (anyone in the Midwest back
in the mid-70's had this one)

Deep Purple - "Made In Japan"  (been awhile since I've heard this one, but
I recall the great jams on "Highway Star" & "Space Truckin")

Tragically Hip - "Live Between Us"  (the only "modern day" live album on
this excellent representation of this under-appreciated band - at
least in the States - and a good introduction to their music for the

Just my random thinks...


P.S.  Don't forget, you can still get the free DS jewel case inserts I made
at the following webpage:


From: David Panian 
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:57:23 -0500
Subject: great live albums

Patric Vella wrote:

>Greetings Folks,
>I am interested in picking up some great live albums.
>Would appreciate if you could e-mail me privately or
>post to the NMS your top 10 best Live albums ever.
>I'm a seventies/eighties guy so I tend to have albums like:
>Whitesnake    - Live in the heart of the City
>Queen         - Live Killers
>Supertramp    - Live in Paris
>Rush          - ATWAS, ESL,DS etc..
>Zeppelin      - Song remains the same
>Deep Purple   - Made in Japan
>Pink Floyd    - The Pulse
>Fleetwood Mac - The Dance
>Can anyone recommend some GREAT live albums worth picking up?
>What am I missing? :-)

I'd suggest these:

Queensryche: Operation: LIVEcrime
Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band: Live Bullet
Kiss: Alive!, Alive II and Alive III (the first is the best of the three)

Later, David


From: (Steve Eads)
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 21:14:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RE: Underrated

>Rush is by far, the most underrated group in the history of
>music."Different Stages" peaked at #35 on the billboard charts, while
>Garth Brooks new live album went to #1 immediately. What is wrong with
>this picture? I'm sorry folks, but Geddy, Alex, and Neil have more
>talent in their fucking pinkies than all of the crap that makes the top
>ten these days put together!!!

I just have something to say about this, while Rush is my favorite band, I
do happen to like Garth Brooks, you can't compare the two of them, one is
Country Music and the other is "Progressive" Rock. Any attempt to compare
them gets thrown out the window.

As far as talent, Garth Brooks is an extremely talented artist for what he
does. Listen to the song "Ireland" or the country "classic twist" of "Papa
loved Mama". (on second thought don't bother, you are one of those who
ranks country worse than rap , right?)

Garth Brooks appeals to a larger audience, because he's fun, his music is
easier to swallow, and he's an "all american boy". 

Rush on the other hand mostly appeals to people with an appreciation of
more complex music, and normally this goes over most people's heads.

I really hate when people judge other artists worse or better on a list
like this. "so and so sucks", ok you are entitled to an opinion, but I'm
sure there are bands or artists you listen to that I don't like. I don't
go around slagging them on a mailing list though. Lets all agree to
disagree on issues like this, and not go saying Rush is better than "so
and so", we all know they are ;) But even some of the really lame stuff
out there has value (even if its to show what *not* to listen to ;)


Pat Lynch
Systems Administrator					Rush Networking
Remark made by Bertrand Meyer (inventor of the Eiffel language) at a
panel discussion at OOPSLA '89:
        "COBOL programmers are destined to code COBOL for the
         rest of their lives, and thereafter."


Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 19:47:16 -0500
Subject: Time Stand Still

To the guy who posted that the end of Rush is nigh, and who raised his 
glass to the band...I would also like to add my glass to the toast.  
Rush has been with me since I was little and I couldn't sleep because my 
older brother was blasting "A Farewell to Kings" and "Hemispheres".  I 
remember my junior year in college, lying on my bed after a night of 
revelry and listening, for the hundreth time, "Presto", loving the 
opening of "Superconductor", the solo in "Red Tide", the drumming in 
"Anagram" and the cool camraderie of "Hand over Fist."  I have turned to 
Rush in times of depression, anger, apathy, rage, love, lust and 
happiness.  Rush's music has inspired me in times of strength and 
anchored me in times of weakness.  Thank you Ged, Alex and Neil.

But of all my Rush moments, my favorite and most memorable is strangely 
appropriate now, in the days and months before the band leaves us.  I 
was in the Providence Civic Center in '91, watching "Time Stand Still," 
one of my all-time favorite songs, and I remember looking around the 
arena during the line "freeze this moment a little bit longer; make each 
impression a little bit stronger..." just soaking it in and implanting 
the sound, the atmosphere, and the band on my mind forever.  I now know 
that I, along with all of my Rush brothers and sisters, are echoing my 

"The innocence slips away..."


Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 20:54:41 -0500
Subject: collins vs. peart

Zahid Hassan  wrote:

> Haven't written for a while - but I'd like to get into a drummers debate
> here.  Having loved Rush for nearly 20 years I'd like to know why Neil Peart
> can't loosen up on his kit.  I mean if you see him live everything seems so
> intense.  OK - so he's concentrating but there must come a point in his
> playing where he handled the percussion without thinking.  Phil Collins on
> the other hand is so ridicilousy relaxed at the kit it's unbelievable!!!  I
> personally think that Collins is technically the better drummer - utilising
> more percussive sounds from electronic kits etc.  Peart makes drumming look
> difficult - Collins eradicates any problems about drumming.
> What do you think?????
> Zahid (aka Zed)

I think that whatever validity Mr. Collins may have in his remarkable
expertise has been masked by his uncanny compromise to musical
integrity.  He is without a single doubet in my mind, the biggest
sell-out to corporate rock that has ever existed.  He was (and is still)
an excellent drummer.  One of the greatest rock drummers....  but gave
it all up for a life of "Not Dancing", "Easy Loving", not to mention his
sound performance in Buster: The Motion Picture.  Shame on Phil. 

Kudos to Mr. Peart who has never compromised his musical integrity. He,
who has actually taken it upon himself to "relearn" drumming.  He may
"look" tensed up, but his creative sounds echo throughout the jam packed
concert halls (insert audience screams).  Besides, many greats have
played unconventionally (Hendrix?) 

If you really want to discuss "relaxing" in drumming, check out Bill
Bruford who plays the kit like it's an extension of himself.  I saw Mr.
Bruford play with Tony Levin, Chris Botti, and David Torn and since then
I've been Bruforized.....  He boggles my mind.   (Oh, and Terry Bozzio
also rocks!!!!!)

"You won't get wise with the sleek stare in your eyes, no matter what
your dreams might be." NP



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