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----------------------------------------------------------------------


         The National Midnight Star, Number 2168


                   Monday, 25 Jan 1999

Today's Topics:
                         petrucci
                 NeilPeart.com is online
                  Red Barchetta on UK TV
                 Fastest guitarist thread
                 ESL? Overdubbed or not?
                       A Few Things
       musical priorities/phrasing and timing/etc.
                Re:The Phil Collins Debate
                       live albums
                       Had my phil!
                    Collins vs. Peart
               Nick, Harbinger of Ignorance
              Rockline Interview: Good? Bad?
                     Live Bloody Live
                  Drummers/ Phil Collins
                    Rockline questions
                       phil collins
                      Guitar Greats
                     Guitarist Tones
Re: Fastest - Shmastest/Slim Jim/Fastest Guitarist thread, et al...
                      Best guitarist
               Another brilliant DS review
                      Re: underrated
                 2nd Rush Sighting in UK
          Phil carries his own sticks, thank you
                       Fish Islands
                      Fish Eye Lens
                     Drummers Debate
                         Placebo
                        hey there
              Gangster of Boats on Rockline
           Geddy & 5, 6-String, fretless basses
----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Antony Gelberg" 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 20:48:14 -0000
Subject: petrucci

>> I must make another one of my humble, but true statements: John Petrucci
>> from Dream Theater is the best guitar player alive right now.
>>
>
>Nah.  Even worse than Yngwie, mate.

WHAT??  I have to disagree here.  Whilst not "the best alive", Petrucci
stands out in a world packed with guitarists who can play fast.  He has
good speed, yes, but also a good selection of tones.  His solos are in
the main quite singable (and that is a good barometer, imo).  He puts a
lot of emotion into his playing, and also knows when not to play.  He
uses his technique as a means to a worthwhile end, and is also a mean
rhythm player.

It is hard to pick out a single defining moment, but try to get a listen
to "Lines In The Sand" (5.40 to 7.30) from their latest album, "Falling
Into Infinity".  Or anything off the new live album.  That should give
you an idea of what he can do.  The guy is a real legend, and to compare
him to the fast but tasteless and conceited Malmsteen is just a joke,
imo.

Just my two pence.  (Rush content - If you get to hear the new DT live
album, listen to the guitar at the start of CD2.)
 --
Antony

Email: antony@antgel.demon.co.uk or
            gelberga@dcs.kcl.ac.uk

ICQ: 26767777

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ralph Huffnagle" 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:56:35 EST
Subject: NeilPeart.com is online

I was a little bored so, I was checking out domain names for rush.  I 
typed in http://www.neilpeart.com and it took me to the Helmet home 
page.  What is up with that?   Is Helmet Rush fans?

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Stuart Borland" 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:17:19 -0000
Subject: Red Barchetta on UK TV

Hey Rush fans in UK

Did you see Watchdog tonight?  (with the lovely Alice Beer!!)

During a bit about motoring, Red Barchetta was playing in the background!

All we need is a tour now!

Stuart

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ronald Smith" 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:26:45 -0400
Subject: Fastest guitarist thread

Dear readers,

    There's been an ongoing thread about fastest guitar players; for my =
$0.02 worth, why hasn't anyone even mentioned Joe Satriani? I'm no =
guitarist, but his speed and finesse is hard to beat!

----------------------------------------------------------

From: Colin Miller 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:30:23 -0800
Subject: ESL? Overdubbed or not?

So in the history of Rush, who can remember the person who first
suggested that ESL vocals were overdubbed? Everyone who remembers can
answer. Please give an approx. date that you first heard it. 

	The more I watch ESL, the more I see small mistakes by Geddy matching
up his studio vocals with the concert footage. I was hopefully skeptical
the first time I heard this rumor, because I wanted to think his
performances back then were excellent. Please don't forget to give a
date you first heard this comment.

Colin

"Try Me, I Rock"

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Greg Sanderson" 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:40:22 PST
Subject: A Few Things

I thought I'd break my silence of a few weeks and mention one or two 
things that have cropped up whilst reading the last few issues of TNMS.

First off:

Christopher W Lindsay  wrote:
>"Fate is just the weight of circus dances"

Please, please tell me this guy *knows* that it's 'circumstances' and 
not 'circus dances'.  The Fish Islands saga was bad enough...

Secondly:

ASOH Video
I was watching this one a couple of days ago and this is what floated 
through my mind:

1.  Rush kick live ass *so* much harder ten years on.
2.  They really do have a lot of fun in concert, no question.
3.  The Rhythm Method was much better back then.
4.  Especially since according to the misprint on the video     
tracklisting it includes YYZ as well. 

Thirdly:

Fastest Guitarists
I agree with the guy who said this thread blows, and for all the reasons 
he stated too.  For the record though, although my favourite guitarists 
aren't speed demons like John Petrucci, I like them because they have 
what he lacks:  taste.  Alex Lifeson and David Gilmour may not be able 
to play 800 notes per minute, but please bear in mind that true musical 
discipline is attained when one can *play* that fast but *choose* not 
to.  Although Dream Theater are one of my fave bands and I listen to 
them all the time, I am in no doubt that virtually all of their number 
are guilty of this lack of discipline.  Give them another 2 or 3 records 
in the direction they've been heading since Awake to Falling into 
Infinity and they will have probably learned to slow down a little and 
take the time to sound like themselves rather than a mish-mash of all 
their oft-quoted influences.  I look forward to it.

Finally:

DS continues to rock my world, and it's nice to see Rush in the music 
press a little.  What does my head in is that they seem to get as much 
mention for their new release as they do for having a lead singer who 
'allegedly' sounds just like Brian Molko of Placebo (hardly).  One 
reviewer even had the nerve to label Placebo as 'More than Goth.  More 
than Rush'.  Can you imagine?

Rolling Bones,

Greg Sanderson

----------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Engebo 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:48:49 -0800
Subject: musical priorities/phrasing and timing/etc.

Matt wrote (in part):

>Phrasing and timing...
>
>Fusioneers like Robben Ford, Frank Zappa, Scott Henderson, Mike Stern,
> and Trey Anastasio and none of them are alike. Why?
>
>Phrasing and timing...
>
>Think of any great Jazz musician (something everyone reading this 
>post might want to do), like 'Trane, Bird, Duke Ellington, Louis 
>Armstrong, Charlie Christian, Benny Goodman, Miles Davis (the list is 
>endless). Different instruments, different eras, what do they have in 
>common? What did they devlop a unique, personal sense of?

I was so glad to see this.  Matt is right on.  Whatever kind of music you
like, phrasing and timing is it.  And Matt's post reminds me to encourage
you all to listen to some John Coltrane.  Go to the library, check it out.
This man was brilliant; he knew how to lay it down.  I've seen many posts
on this list begging for Rush to be more spontaneous live.  Well, that's
not their gig, and as much as I'd love that too, I can't ask any more of
them--to me, they're far and away the best in their genre.  But if you want
to hear some incredible spontaneous live work, check out Coltrane: Live at
the Village Vanguard 1961, as a starting point.

But I'm getting away from the subject at hand.  So what if Alex isn't
anywhere near the fastest guitarist?  His phrasing and timing are there.
And I think most of the fast guitarists named here recently aren't anywhere
near the musical skill level of some of those that Matt named.

For another not-fast guitarist whose phrasing and timing is absolutely
great, check out Jimmy Herring.  He's recorded with Aquarium Rescue Unit
and Jazz Is Dead, and has played with the Allman Bros., Frogwings, Derek
Trucks Band, Bruce Hornsby, etc.  Jazz drummer great Bill Cobham loves the
guy (they're in Jazz Is Dead together...)

Enough of my rambling.  Enjoy the music!

Chris

----------------------------------------------------------

From: Stomp44Too@aol.com
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:57:09 EST
Subject: Re:The Phil Collins Debate

 <>

Hmmm, maybe. At least Neil doesn't insist on treating us to his "funky" solo
outings.   However, looking at his head-gear in recent years perhaps it a good
thing Neil doesn't implore you to "...Wear His Hat" :P

James

----------------------------------------------------------

From: Joe Lynch 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:18:24 -0800
Subject: live albums

Some you might want to try are:

Genesis- Seconds Out (Phil plays pretty good drums on this album)
Iron Maiden- Live After Death
Triumph-In Concert
Marillion-Thieving Magpie (La Gazza Ladra)
Joe Lynch
iFILL
the division formally known as Sound Delivery
Valley Media, Inc.
jml1@valley-media.com
(530) 661-7810

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Ayers" 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:04:00 -0500
Subject: Had my phil!

One day, I saw:

"Hi folks
Haven't written for a while - but I'd like to get into a drummers debate
here.  Having loved Rush for nearly 20 years I'd like to know why Neil = Peart
can't loosen up on his kit.  I mean if you see him live everything seems = so
intense.  OK - so he's concentrating but there must come a point in his
playing where he handled the percussion without thinking.  Phil Collins = on
the other hand is so ridicilousy relaxed at the kit it's unbelievable!!! = I
personally think that Collins is technically the better drummer - = utilising
more percussive sounds from electronic kits etc.  Peart makes drumming = look
difficult - Collins eradicates any problems about drumming.
What do you think?????
Zahid (aka Zed)
England"

This made me think....after thinking a little as possible, I replied:

Phil was a great drummer no later than 1984 (IMHO) and I am no longer =
sure he is a drummer at all.  I admit that I once placed him close to =
Neil in the pantheon of drum gods, but I believe Neil is Phil's superior =
by far at this point in time.  Phil tends to stick with more =
conventional rhythms and fills (phils?) especially noting the repeated =
fills on such vartious songs as "Other Arms" with Robert Plant, "I Know =
There's Somthing Going On" with Freda, "Like China" his own and some =
Genesis tunes I can't pin-point at the moment.  The man practically has =
a signature fill!  Neil is much more creative and progressive in what he =
does, particularly in the area of his use of electronic drums to mimic =
other musical instruments such as harps, trumpets, xylophones, gongs and =
horn sections.  Neil is also more skilled.  I see no value in the =
player's appearance as he plays.  Phil may only look more relaxed =
because he's not trying as hard or playing as complicated a piece.
You want drummers, listen to Bill Bruford, Stuart Copeland, Mike Portnoy =
(tho' sometimes I think he's just too sycopated for his own damn good!) =
and Mark Brzezicki of Big Country (wow!).

Dave

"I'm out!" - Cosmo Kramer

----------------------------------------------------------

From: mmaholch@kusd.kusd.edu
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:49:19 -0500
Subject: Collins vs. Peart

Comparing Phil Collins to Neil Peart is like comparing a Chrysler New 
Yorker to a Rolls Royce.  The New Yorker is nice and everything, sure, 
but....come on, now.  (No offense intended- everyone has a right to 
their opinion).

Neil Peart is the Michael Jordan of drums.

Matt

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rob Godwin" 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:47:43 -0600
Subject: Nick, Harbinger of Ignorance

Fellow Rush fans and one lone disciple of benightedness,

	I felt compelled to comment on "Conservative Rush Fans are Hypocrites"
since it flies in the face of logic and reason, two tenets serious Rush
fans revere.  I know the comments in Nick's impotent diatribe were designed
to infuriate some and rally others around his malformed ideology.  The
simple fact remains that one's political leanings don't make one a lesser
Rush fan than one who shares opposing views.  I believe in God and some
conservative beliefs.  Does this make me any less of a Rush fan?  How
exactly, in Nick's words,  am I hypocritical?  Please explain this to me. 
I graduated college with a degree in English and have gone to graduate
school also while Nick's still muddling through.  I would love to be amazed
at Nick's potent powers of perception.  I find it interesting that Nick's
idiotic comments only serve to alienate a following of people that have one
thing in common with him:  Rush.  How does his thinly vielded animosity
help the forum of Rush discussion?  I would really like to know the answer.
 The inevitable Rush quote illustrates my point succinctly:

We can walk our road together
If our goals are all the same
We can run alone and free
If we pursue a different aim.

Rob
B.A. English,   95'  

----------------------------------------------------------

From: Tracy Smith 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:57:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Rockline Interview: Good? Bad?

So the Rockline interview wasn't so good? The Rush Manager's comment 
(TNMS #2166)seemed to indicate that! Darn!
What did they ask? When was this interview conducted? Just wondering.

thanks, Tracy
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
============================================================================

Tracy Smith
tsmith@wahoo.sjsu.edu

" Treat people as if they were what they ought to be and you help 
them to become what they are capable of being." ~ Johann W. von Goethe ~

----------------------------------------------------------

From: Stuart Hodgetts 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:27:30
Subject: Live Bloody Live

G'day all,

Patrick Vella asked about good live albums....

Depending on your tastes (but keeping in mind that we have had threads
about Rush fans who like the following bands as well....), I would
recommend these;

1) "Reunion"   Black Sabbath.  Good sound on this double cd, with meaty
performances and some classic Ozzy humour.  Crowd participation is high,
but doesn't spoil the music at all.  Great selection of songs, and as close
to last year's fantastic "Ozzfest" as you will get - if you missed that
show - until they release that concert on cd.

2) "Live at the Lyceum"  The Cult. I think this came only as a bonus cd for
the "Pure Cult...." and their final self-titled release.  Again, great
sound and collection of songs.  Such a shame they split up....:)-

3) "Thieving Magpie"  Marillion.  Good selection of songs, with Fish still
at the helm.  Don't spend too much on this double cd, as the sound isn't
that great (imho).

Obligatory Rush content....Anyone go to Ozzfest at Milton Keynes last year
wearing a TFE t-shirt?  I saw at least 2 of you...

Billy Oz...out

----------------------------------------------------------

From: mrfranklin@west.raytheon.com
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:37 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Drummers/ Phil Collins

Carl D. Fulli responds:
>>>>
>Hi folks
>Haven't written for a while - but I'd like to get into a drummers = debate
>here.  Having loved Rush for nearly 20 years I'd like to know why Neil = Peart
>can't loosen up on his kit.  I mean if you see him live everything = seems so
>intense.  OK - so he's concentrating but there must come a point in his
>playing where he handled the percussion without thinking.  Phil Collins = on
>the other hand is so ridiculously relaxed at the kit it's = unbelievable!!!  I
>personally think that Collins is technically the better drummer - = utilizing
>more percussive sounds from electronic kits etc.  Peart makes drumming = look
>difficult - Collins eradicates any problems about drumming.
>What do you think?????

I think you're absolutely WRONG.  What Neil Peart does with the drums IS =
difficult.  That's why he is concentrating or at least it seems that =
way.  To be that good you have to concentrate to a certain degree, but =
have you ever thought that maybe that is just his natural expression =
while playing?  I don't think he has to concentrate and I do think he is =
loose.  Phil Collins couldn't carry Neil's sticks let alone be a =
technically better drummer.  And if you've ever truly listened to Rush =
you would know that Neil has used various amounts of instruments for =
percussion.  Also, if you've read/heard one of Neil's interviews he =
doesn't consider himself just a drummer but a percussionist. He also =
incorporates a lot of cultural influences in his drumming.  In the end =
this is a ridiculous debate because you can't compare someone who left =
their drum kit  to sing Sussudio (forgive the spelling) with one of the =
greatest drummers who has ever lived.
<<<<

Why oh why can't people respond to a reasonable question without going 
ballistic.  Tsk Tsk.  Chill Pills all around.  

Having seen both drummers numerous times and being a fan of both, I'd say the 
original poster's (whose name was not in the above response) observation was 
dead on accurate.  Neil IS an incredibly intense drummer and has been called so 
by Ged, Alex and Neil himself.  No other word better describes him.  and Phildo 
is incredibly relaxed and does some amazing things - You Might Recall, In The 
Cage, anyone...Bueller...?   Both drummers contibute to the uniqueness of their 
band's sound and both drummers have a signature sound.  Which ones better?  You 
might as well ask who can drum faster.  Then again, please don't.

Mark

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jeffrey Robinson" 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:13:51 -0500
Subject: Rockline questions

Hello everyone,
The rsh-mgr was right...the questions were pretty lame.

I did have some questions, but was unable to call.
Some of my questions were:
I was hoping that maybe someone would have asked if Alex and Geddy had any
plans while they were 'on hiatus.'
I wanted to find out what they thought about playing for the Molson series
in a small nightclub in Toronto. Would they do it again? In hindsight, what
would they have one differently? (this is what I would have asked...)
Would Alex and Geddy continue with their music careers if Neil did, heaven
forbid, decide not to return to the band? If yes, would they work together,
or go off on their own solo projects? If no, what would they most likely do?
(I would have asked this, but....)
Did anyone else notice that (except for one or two callers) very little
mention was made of Rushs' future?  It seemed like a taboo subject.
Oh well, we can only hope, wait and see.

I did like the question about the tribute album, and it was interesting to
hear the bands side of the issue.

just my $.02
Hoping that better questions will be asked the next time Rush is on Rockline
(that is, if....)
Jeff Robinson

----------------------------------------------------------

From: Alex Smith 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:28:43 -0700
Subject: phil collins



I think that whatever validity Mr. Collins may have in his remarkable
expertise has been masked by his uncanny compromise to musical
integrity.  He is without a single doubet in my mind, the biggest
sell-out to corporate rock that has ever existed.  He was (and is still)
an excellent drummer.  One of the greatest rock drummers....  but gave
it all up for a life of "Not Dancing", "Easy Loving", not to mention his
sound performance in Buster: The Motion Picture.  Shame on Phil. 
(Su-su-suddio)



Hey, you gotta admit "In the Air Tonight" is a great song! I would love to
remake that song all atmospheric and shite.

Alex Smith
bacchus@azstarnet.com

"To love another person is to see the face of God."
  -Les Miserables

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Ayers" 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:35:35 -0500
Subject: Guitar Greats

Someone asked:

"Who has made you wonder how they got such a wonderful sound out of
their guitar? My nominees:
1) Stevie Ray Vaughan. Best Blues tone. Ever.
2) David Gilmour. Listen to "Comfortably Numb" and you'll know what I
mean.
3) James Hetfield. His guitar sound reminds me of an unlucky knight in
a dragon's jaws. Metallic, crunchy, heavy, yet meaty and organic.
4) The Edge. Not only does he get that lovely ringing sound, he's also
gotten some really nice distortion ("Gone"), great wah effects
("Zooropa"), and even some good totally un-guitar-like sounds ("Numb").
5) Brian May. He really does sound like a stringed orchestra."

Chemicals & electrical impulses caused me to reply:

I have always liked many guitarists, but had to categorize them all to =
be able to talk about them all in comparison, otherwise I would always =
come back to Steve Howe, Alex and Eddie Van Halen.
Thus: my thoughts exposed...
Solos:  I agree that David Gilmour was born to write solos.  He aways =
seems to create memorable, beautiful and emotional solos that are =
utterly approiate to the songs in which they reside.  I also need to =
mention Ian Bainson (Alan Parsons Project) and Richie Sambora (not a =
joke) in this category.  Players in this category are not always =
technical geniuses, but I love their solos.
Sonic Ingenuity:  This category is for players who just come up with =
wonderfully unusual ways to play their instruments that I don't hear =
from others.  Probably the best in this category are Robert Fripp and =
Adrian Belew.  My personal favorite is Jamie West-Oram of the Fixx, =
however.  Check out "Deeper and Deeper,"  "The Fool,"  and much of the =
album Calm Animals.  He also did a nice guest shot with Stevie Nicks on =
"Long, Long Way to Go" from The Other Side of the Mirror.
The Wolf-In-Sheeps'-Clothing category is for guys who are excellent rock =
guitarists, but surprisingly adept at acoustic work.  The first two who =
come to mind for me are Triumph's Rik Emmitt ("Midsummer's Daydream" and =
"Beyond Borders" which is a little one-shot insert from a magazine by a =
group called Canadian Guitar Summit featuring Rik, Alex, and two folks =
whose names I've forgotten) and Steve "Guess My Current Band" Morse.
The top three (Eddie, Alex & Steve for those with short memories) along =
with John Petrucci fit in all three of these categories and I'm =
surprised at how little I hear Mr. Howe's name mentioned.  He's =
incredible.  For those only familiar with his Yes work, check out GTR.  =
Hackneyed writing, but the guitar work by Steve Hackett and him is =
mind-blowing!

DA

"I'm out!" - Cosmo Kramer

----------------------------------------------------------

From: loric.vilesilencer.ii@grnet.com
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:46:18 -0500 
Subject: Guitarist Tones

Since we've killed off the "fastest guitarist" thread, someone else
asked us to list our favorite tones, so here you have it.

1. David Gilmour - This man can do more with one note than a lot of
players can do with the entire guitar. Listen to his solos on "Time",
"Comfortably Numb", and "Shine on You Crazy Diamond". A master of bends
and phrasing.

2. Eric Johnson - I don't think anyone has played guitar with this much
raw emotion since Jimi Hendrix. Johnson writes the most beautiful music
on guitar I've ever heard. He is a true perfectionist. While searching
for his tone, he even went so far as to try different types of batteries
in his pedals, until he got it just right. His use of octaves and string
skipping makes him one of my favorite players.

3. Alex Lifeson - Ol Lerxst definatley makes this list. His tone for
solos like Limelight and La Villa Strantiago (especially the one heard
on the ASOH video version) are awesome. I think Alex's tone is one of
his strongest points at guitar. That, and chord voicings.

4. Brian May - Awesome singing guitar tone, like all the guys above.
Heard well in "Bohemian Rhapsody", heck, heard in just about every song
Queen made.

5. Eddie Van Halen - Awesome tone for a rock player. He could go from
thunderous rhythms to suttle picking while still on the same tone. A lot
of his tone is in his fingers, as is Johnson's.

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Decker" 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:12:07 -0600
Subject: Re: Fastest - Shmastest/Slim Jim/Fastest Guitarist thread, et al...

In response to Wayne's comment about Yngwie not caring about someone telling
him that Petrucci is faster I'd have to totally disagree.  Malmsteen is such
a overbearing, egotistical head case that such a comment would likely put
him over the edge!!

Hey Slim!  Sorry to disagree with you, but John Petrucci is so, so, so much
more than a "finger gymnast".  His composition skills and the atmosphere and
feeling he puts into much of his work is what separates him from all of the
other Vai's and Malmsteen's in the music world.

I'd also like to throw out one more guitarist who has been very influential
in my musical style (Also a 20 year guitarist) and I'm sure I'll get flamed,
but I've always admired Ritchie Blackmore and his classically inspired
compositions.  Granted, he hasn't done much to impress me lately (his
leaving Deep Purple and the arrival of Steve Morse as the new Purple axe-man
has been a refreshing breath of air for a tired old "dinosaur rock" band),
but he did some truly amazing things with Deep Purple in the sixties and
early seventies, and he absolutely rocked on the first 3 Rainbow albums (w/
Ronnie James Dio).

Of course, he's the quintessential walking talking rectum as a human being.
But I'm willing to forgive him that as long as he's got that Stratocaster
strapped on!

Just my 2 cent's worth

Dave

"Too many hands on my time"
Too many feelings"
Too many things on my mind"
(AIN"T IT THE TRUTH!)

----------------------------------------------------------

From: rinckster@webtv.net (The Rinckster)
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:21:46 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Best guitarist

I am enjoying our debate over the best/fastest guitarist.  I was
surprised by Carolines suggestion of Eric Johnson.  Yes, indeedee, I
agree that if you have never heard EJ's work, you are missing a treat
treat.  Best/fastest/most interesting, I think not.  Fun to listen to,
yes...no question.  I must agree the from the emotional side of the
musical coin, I would have to put Alex at nearly the top of the list.  I
have been moved to tears by few guitarists, but have been routinely been
choked up by many a Rush tune, only enhanced by the true feeling coming
from the hands of Alex.  Alas, I find it amazing that God created such
beauty from a craft of wood and wires.  But, as phrasing and timing DOES
INDEED rule, the beauty is in the hands of the holder.  

Throughout a lifetime of music appreciation, fanaticism and
participation, I have been enthralled by the majesty of musics power to
calm me, to aggravate me, to empower me, to motivate me and, mostly, to
help me emote.  Johnette Napolitano did great justice to my spirit with
Concrete Blondes "Bloodletting", while at the same time, the boys "Hold
Your Fire" rarely left my WalkMan for nearly a year!  "Summers going
fast, nights growing colder, children growing up, old friends growing
older" 

It does my heart good not only to see the debates in this journal, but
to think on the musical memories attached in my own heart with EACH and
EVERY band I see talked of here.  Lakeside park............

As for my two pence, I have not seen (forgive if wrong) Ritchie
Blackmore mentioned in this debate of virtuosity.  Hardly can any rock
and roll (and more) guitartist deny the influence of Blackmore. If you
have opportunity, or wish to treat yourself to perhaps some of the
greatest recorded music ever, indulge yourself in "Catch the Rainbow"
"Sixteenth Century
Greensleeves" and "Still I'm Sad" from "On Stage"  When you've given
that a thorough listen, turn on to  "Gates of Babylon" from "Long Live
Rock and Roll".
"Gates" may possibly be the greatest recorded guitar work in r-n-r
history.

But even in that, the debates go on..........

Peace,
Rinckster

"Music be the food of love...play on!"
       - William Shakespeare

serenity  courage  wisdom  just for today

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hegemann, Ted" 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:32:15 -0600
Subject: Another brilliant DS review

This appeared a few weeks back in a local independent weekly paper called
the "Salt Lake City Weekly". It's a pretty decent paper for the most part.
They run stories the mainstream press won't touch. You can see the review,
as well as the review of many of the recent live albums, on their web site.
www.slweekly.com.  Just go to the archives and type in 'rush different
stages'.

Here's the review: 

Rush Different Stages (Atlantic) Jesus, not another one. Rush may have the
Stones beat for sheer number of redundant live albums, and Neil Peart's drum
solos were an FDA-recognized sleep-aid long before Melatonin came onto the
market. Another reason to hate Rush live albums: All but one use "stage" in
their titles-you can learn this and many more obscure factoids via the Rush
fan club website at www.geekbot.com/users/2112/geddy_is_god.html. The
perfect post-Xmas gift for: Anyone who can find that website. 

I propose the following minimum standard required for reviewing a release:
1- you gotta be honest and 2- You gotta actually LISTEN TO THE CD. 

You've got to admit, seeing the word "stage" in the name of the album is
certainly reason to hate them. Sheeesh! Nice review, pal.

Turbo Ted

SLC, Ut  
Home of the tainted 2002 Winter Olympics.
"Glittering prizes and endless compromises..."

----------------------------------------------------------

From: Bravado 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:32:46 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Re: underrated

>Rush is by far, the most underrated group in the history of
>music."Different Stages" peaked at #35 on the billboard charts, while
>Garth Brooks new live album went to #1 immediately. What is wrong with
>this picture? I'm sorry folks, but Geddy, Alex, and Neil have more
>talent in their fucking pinkies than all of the crap that makes the top
>ten these days put together!!!

No. Nothing wrong. We know Rush here. We don't know who the *f-word*
Garth Brooks is.

Rush is international. Entered our charts. Not just once.
Brooks is US-national (so I'm told). No sign of GB in our charts.
Wonder what's wrong... people in US say that he's got more talent...
*big grin*

Stop staring so close to the charts. That's ridiculous. Just be happy
that Rush at least makes the charts and that they continue to produce
more music. That's all that matters. At least to me.

Mainstream followers have no idea of what "talent" means.

Just my 0.02 Euros...

 rb-

p.s. who the *f-word* is gb, anyway? *grin*

p.p.s. gb fans, uh, please, no flames, i'm just stating the facts.

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Berry, Paul W (Syncordia)" 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:47:55 -0000
Subject: 2nd Rush Sighting in UK

Hey All,

I'm compelled to write and and describe only my second ever Rush sighting in
the UK.

I was watching a TV programme last night called Watchdog - its a consumer,
do-gooding type affair with a condescending cow of a presenter. Anyway,
there was an item on the Fiat Barchetta which has a "sticking variable
valve" that makes the engine sound like a "London taxi".....(that probably
translates best to "an old farm truck")....There was a 10 second flash of
the car driving down country roads to the tune of - you guessed it - Red
Barchetta. My kids couldn't undertstand why I was smiling.

Any other UK NMSers catch this one......

PS. My first sighting was Vivian from the Young One wearing a Rush T-shirt
15+ years ago......

Bezza

Paul Berry
01442 224433
berrypw@bp.com

----------------------------------------------------------

From: gary@newnan.com
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:05:34 -0500
Subject: Phil carries his own sticks, thank you

On  Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:48:29 Carl D. Fulli wrote:

 "Phil Collins couldn't carry Neil's sticks let alone be a technically
better drummer."

The Neil-Peart-is-my-hero-so-don't-you-dare-compare-another-drummer-to-him
crowd has spoken again. Someone dares to voice the opinion that someone
else does something differently, and maybe better, than Mr. Peart and they
go mad.

While I think the assertion that Phil Collins is a better drummer
technically than Neil Peart is absurd, rejecting Collins because of his
recent sins is sad. Saying he can't compare with Neil is even sadder,
especially since Peart names Collins as one of his influences.

Carl Fulli also wrote: "In the end this is a ridiculous debate because you
can't compare someone who left their drum kit to sing Sussudio (forgive the
spelling) with one of the greatest drummers who has ever lived."

Phil, too, is one of the greatest drummers who has ever lived. To throw out
the greatness of Musical Box, The Burning Rope and much of Genesis' catalog
because of Phil's last few albums closes the door on some of the greatest
drumming ever committed to tape. That doesn't even take into account some
of the wonderful playing he's done for others and the amazing playing he
continues to do live. Sure the Phil Collins Big Band thing sucked because
of his choice of songs, but the drumming was excellent. Sussudio and One
More Night cast doubt on his future credibility, but please don't say the
rest of his career is worthless over a few songs.

I agree, and have long though myself, that the two drummers represent polar
approaches. Neil is very concentrated, plotting each move like a master
chess player. With so much thought poured into his playing, he has produced
some of the greatest drum tracks ever. I'll easily defend him as the best
rock drummer ever.

But, on that often-rejected other hand, Collins lets the notes flow through
him. If you watch him for a while, you'll see him stare at the ceiling or
close his eyes and become lost in the music. Peart does that on the odd
occassion. On the last few albums, Neil's playing has started to flow more,
but, and I'm sure he'd agree, he's not at the same stage Collins is on that
matter. Not that that's wrong or bad or that his playing lag's behind
Phil's. It certainly does not. But Phil is more fluid, as are people like
Carter Beauford, Simon Phillips, Dennis Chambers and others.

I join you, Carl, in rejecting the assertion that Collins uses more
electronic percussion or uses it better than Peart. There is simply no way
this can be true. Phil used Simmons kits in the 80s like the rest of us,
but that's about as far as he went and that's no reason to claim he is an
electronic percussionist. You add that Neil uses a lot of "cultural
drumming." Phil does as well. His last album, "Dance into the Light," and
his album "But, Seriously" have some wonderful pieces influenced by African
percussion.

In short, I agree with you, Carl, that an assertion that Collins is better
than Peart is laughable. But to ridicule Collins and call his life of
playing worthless, if I'm not putting words in your mouth, is equally
laughable. In my opinion, Neil is the greatest, but Phil is one of the
greatest.

Watching life go by on the Fish Islands,

Gary

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Robin Barriteau" 
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:00:09 -0500
Subject: Fish Islands

  I've been a Rush fan for over 18 years. In response to the post about =
the Fish Islands I was always pretty sure that the lyrics were "living =
in a fish eye lens,caught in the camara eye" If i am eroneous in this =
assumption,someone please post a message telling me.                     =
                                                                         =
      Sincerely:Miagi man
 miagi1@worldnet.att.net

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Skurka, Michael" 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:28:03 -0500
Subject: Fish Eye Lens

"A fish eye lens" refers to a camera lens (a "camera eye", if you will) that
takes a panorama view of the subject being photographed.  For example,
realtors often use a fish eye lens to photograph a house to make it look
bigger than it actually is.  

Hence, when Neil says "living in a fish-eye lens, caught in the camera
eye..." he is referring to the plight of a musician being thrown into the
spotlight, onto a pedestal, and portrayed to be something more than he
is-just a person who makes music.  A place where everybody loves you, wants
to be your friend.  Where you're larger than life.  As he says, "I can't
pretend a stranger is a long-awaited friend".  

This lyric was clearly penned by a good person, a humble musician, a humble
man.  It is the polar opposite of a freak like Marilyn Manson or Spice Girls
who are phenomena that are more hype than substance-who have portrayed
THEMSELVES as something more than just "people who make music".  And not
very good music at that.  They make me want to puke.  In fact, 90% of all
popular music these days is made by people like this.  How many Backstreet
Boys, R&B female diva, and Boys II Men knockoff wannabe acts does the world
really need?

My $0.02,
Mike

----------------------------------------------------------

From: pmcpartlin@omm.com
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:11:21 -0800
Subject: Drummers Debate

> Haven't written for a while - but I'd like to get into a drummers debate
> here.  Having loved Rush for nearly 20 years I'd like to know why Neil Peart
> can't loosen up on his kit.  I mean if you see him live everything seems so
> intense.  OK - so he's concentrating but there must come a point in his
> playing where he handled the percussion without thinking.  Phil Collins on
> the other hand is so ridicilousy relaxed at the kit it's unbelievable!!!  I
> personally think that Collins is technically the better drummer - utilising
> more percussive sounds from electronic kits etc.  Peart makes drumming look
> difficult - Collins eradicates any problems about drumming.
> What do you think?????
> Zahid (aka Zed)

Let's see, Neil looks serious while playing, therefore he is never loose. 
Although I understand the basic premise, if you have watched Neil play (I think
I've seen him live about 20 times, not to mention the worn out live videos I
own), he does get "loose" every so often.  Check out the ending of "Closer to
the Heart" on the GUP video or "Show of Hands" where he is smiling and laughing
and then messes up catching his drumstick on the closing beat.  Which brings up
another point, this guy thrives on pressure.  He believes that it makes him play
better.  As songs get easier for him to play live, he adds harder parts or adds
throwing a drumstick in the air (which he quite often does not catch).  You have
identified something that is mostly true about him (IMHO), he does not WANT to
play "loose" that's why Rush plays the SAME EXACT SET NOTE FOR NOTE basically
every night of the tour -- and holds themselves to a level of perfection based
on that set.  Then there is another drummer who has been debated ad nauseum on
this list, Carter Beauford (Dave Matthews Band), who is so "loose" and whose
sets flow and meander without structure that he could be the anti-Neil.  He, to
me, is as god-like as Neil.  Or we could look at Simon Phillips (Pete Townsend
of late) who constantly has a smile on his face and could murder someone with
his double-bass technique.  Whatever, to each his own.  I understand both sides
of the technique coin.  I too like being intense sometimes in my drum playing
and other times, just relaxing and not getting too worked up about it.  Neil
rocks and I wouldn't want him any other way (nor Carter or Simon or Bill
Bruford, etc.).  They all add a greatness to drumming in their own individuality
and I'm glad I've learned something from each of them.

Now on to Mr. Collins.  He is an amazing drummer.  There can be no doubt about
that.  Live (solo and with Genesis) this guy absolutely kicks ass on the drums
and many of the parts he has written are incredible (not to mention complex). 
And "sell out" I think is a harsh word to use with musicians.  IMHO Phil Collins
writes what he writes because it moves him.  It may not move you anymore (hell,
there are people on this list that say certain periods of Rush don't move them),
but it doesn't mean he's a sell out.  Leave the guy alone, just listen to the
music you like, and be grateful for the music he gave you which you still listen
to (if any).

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jamie \"Nexus 6\" Ng" 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:36:47 -0800
Subject: Placebo

Ello Peoples,
I haven't been keeping up lately, but was wondering if anyone has heard =
a band called "Placebo". The reason I ask is because the vocalist =
reminds me a lot of Geddy Lee, whom you all know and love. I was curious =
to know if anyone else felt the same way. A friend recommended the disc =
to me. It's entitled "Without You I'm Nothing". It's a good spin with =
lotsa guitars.=20
Laters...
Jamie Ng

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "PLUMMER JASON J." 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:02:31 +0000
Subject: hey there

I just bought Corrosion of Conformity's Deliverance
album and I think there is some Rush influence there.
In the back where they list all the credits and everything,
the drummer credits "2112 percussion." 
I thought that was pretty cool.

And about this political frothing stuff.  Who gives a damn what other 
people think.  Keep your views to your self.  We're supposed to take 
the lyrics and be enlightened by our own personal interpretation. 
Especially with Neil's since you can take them to many different 
levels.  I thank him for not being preachy and presenting so many 
different ideas and facts for us to decide on our own.  Interpret and 
think for yourselves, but please don't speculate and theorize on 
politics unless the facts are given.  If they wanted to let us know 
what they are they would of told us. The same thing goes for religon 
too.   I do however know they firmly stand for "individualism" and 
"freewill." We can twist perceptions of what they say to probably 
even make them sound like communists, but what's the good in that?  
I'm in college right now and it has been extreamly rare to come 
across a English or Philosophy prof who hasn't preached his Liberal 
attitudes.  I would of had more respect for them if they purely 
presented issues and facts and let us decide and wright our own 
ideas.  Just ponder on the thought of what Lee, Lifeson, and Peart 
would think if they actually read these posts day in and day out.  
I would imagine there would be some disappointment occasionally.

"Decide just what you belive" -Metallica
"Folks have got to make choices, and choices got to have voices"-Rush
In other words, Rationalize for yourself and make your own decisions. 
Don't let others do it for you...God! I love Rush.

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Flynn, Jason R" 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:14:54 -0600
Subject: Gangster of Boats on Rockline

	>From: "Adam Loch" 
	>
	>I'm listening to Rockline...every time Rush is on Rockline, 
	>somebody has to ask about the Gangster of Boats thing.  It
	>drives me nuts! Maybe I'm just bitter because I'm sitting
	>with a good question getting busy signals, and the people
	>who get on ask questions that they could have read the
	>answers to in the FAQ.  Sorry, I just needed to vent ;-) 

Actually, Adam, the woman who called wanted to know what Gangster of Boats
was, not what the "part IV of a trilogy" meant.  Whether or not she knew it
was a joke, she didn't bring it up--the announcer and Alex started talking
about the joke aspect.  I know it's a joke and I figured it was a joke on
9/3/91, but I still want to know what Gangster of Boats is, because it
appears in the HYF credits too (without the "part IV of a trilogy" joke) I
believe.  And I wasn't too satisfied with Alex's & Ged's answers because
they didn't really elaborate.

I was thinking the same thing you were as I heard the question but then I
realized it wasn't as silly as I had anticipated.

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------

From: "Flynn, Jason R" 
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:23:52 -0600
Subject: Geddy & 5, 6-String, fretless basses

	>From: Cristiano Ceccato 
	>Subject: Geddy & 5, 6-String, fretless basses
	>
	>how come Geddy only ever plays 4-string fretted bass? >I read that
he has fooled around with a 5-string for >the low B, but knowing Rush, I
would expect him to >switch between a variety of basses - 4, 5, 6-string
>fretted and fretless basses - between songs. Why do >you think he has never
done this? 

Well Chris, you bring up an interesting question and I'd have to say it's
simply because Ged feels the 4 string fretted satisfies everything he wants
to do.  I have read an article where he specifically says a fretless doesn't
feel right to him.  He has played one but doesn't have the confidence to
bring it on stage.  I've also read that he has fooled around with a 5-string
(as you put it) and I wish he would use it from time to time too.  Maybe he
thinks it would be hypocritical to expand his choice of basses because he
always maintains the original reason he switched from guitar to bass was
that it has two fewer strings--so it must be easier to play :-)

Jason

----------------------------------------------------------

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End of The National Midnight Star Number 2168
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