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From: rush@syrinx.umd.edu
To: rush_mailing_list
Subject: 09/07/92 - The National Midnight Star #506

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List posting/followup:     rush@syrinx.umd.edu
Administrative matters:    rush-request@syrinx.umd.edu
                                    or
                           rush-mgr@syrinx.umd.edu

(Administrative postings to the posting address will be ignored!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------


          The National Midnight Star, Number 506

                 Monday, 7 September 1992
Today's Topics:
                        Tapestries
                         FlyGirls
              beating the dead bootleg horse
                 Bus driver and bootlegs
                  Bootleg practicalities
                  Rush:  Over the Europe
                     Female RUSH fans
                          mirror
       Justification for selling boots for money???
              That Fanatic from Dartmouth...
                      I am pro-boot.
     Gangster of Boats, Riverport Concert, Rush "pop"
                   RUSH one and two...
       The First Annual Rush (or NMS?) Convention.
           Roll the Bones, Other mailing lists.
 A ditty I wrote this summer, lamenting the NMS' absence!
                          Stuff
                        Which way?
----------------------------------------------------------

Date: 04 Sep 1992 18:55:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Life is just a candle, and the dream must give it flame."
Subject: Tapestries

     Hello all.  It's good to be back enjoying another academic year of "The
National Midnight Star."

     Just thought I'd share something in the way of tapestries.  Last week my
younger brother bought an incredible tapestry from a record store in Port
Jefferson, LI.  It's 3 ft. X 3 ft. tapestry of the man in the star with the
Rush logo from A.F.T.K. going across it.  If you are a long-time subscriber to
The Spirit of Rush fanzine you'll find an ad for it in either issue #8 or #10.

     It's put out by a company called Nikry Novelties, Van Nuys, CA.  Their
phone number is (818) 348-9981, and the catalog number of this tapestry is
WH-637.  However you won't get very far by calling them.  You need to place a
minimum $100 order, and you must have a dealers license.

     What I would like to know is if anyone knows a mail-order places that
deals with Nikry, or other companies that manufacture Rush tapestries.  Can
someone help a poor Rush fan who's down on his luck?  I simply HAVE to have
that tapestry.  My life won't be complete without it.

                                                            - Paul
--
Paul G. Ackerman III    |   Internet addresses:    |"Life is just a candle,
Rochester Institute of  |pga0625@ritvax.isc.rit.edu| and the dream must give
   Technology           |          -or-            | it flame."
Rochester, New York, USA|pga0625@ultb.isc.rit.edu  |               - N. Peart

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 19:10:41 EDT
From: Elizabeth Fike <betsey@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
Subject: FlyGirls

In TNMS #505, the following appeared:

   From: keb@syrinx.HQ.Ileaf.COM (Kristin Brown)
   Subject: Jen says:
   Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 10:15:45 EDT

   >>Incidentally, are there any WOMEN on NMS?  Every female but me at the 
   >>concerts always seems to be someone's (black halter-top wearing) 
   >>girlfriend.

   Yes, there are. There arent MANY female rush fans, as far as i can tell
   (at least in relation to male rush fans!!) but there are a few and i am
   about as diehard a fan as you can be!! My sister is a fan too, though she 
   isnt computer literate (the horror!!!) and therefore isnt on the list.
   i was kinda wondering myself if there were other females on the list!
   good to meet you..
   keb

I missed the original post, but I had to comment.  I am a Rush
fan, and enjoy the list (and, of course, the band!) immensely.
However, I also wear black halter-tops (including to Rush
concerts).  And no, I have never had a Rush-head boyfriend.
Quite the opposite.  To quote Spinal Tap, "What's wrong with
being sexy?" :-) If ya got it, flaunt it.  I find the original
quote kind of offensive.  How someone dresses does not make them
a more or less devoted fan.  I also wear black suede knee-high
boots or black velvet 3" heel boots.  Got a problem with that?
Or does that make me less of a Rush fan?

da Elf.

ps.   nice to meet you too :)

----------------------------------------------------------

From: gregs@zeppelin.sharebase.com (Greg Schroeder)
Subject: beating the dead bootleg horse
Date: Fri, 04 Sep 92 16:51:38 PDT

i might as well be guilty and say something, too.

i am an avid music fan.  i gobble up everything that my faves produce.
that means seeing them in concert in several cities on every tour,
buying every single that has some rare B-side, and obviously buying
every major release.  i am the ultimate FAN of many bands.  read: $$$

i find that bootlegs are an excellent way to further appreciate a
band.  many bands, as has been mentioned here, encourage bootlegs.
such diverse acts metallica and REM all think boots are fine.  why?
because it doesn't cost them anything.  people don't buy bootlegs
INSTEAD of their normal releases, or instead of attending their
concerts.  the buy them in addition to all that.  it promotes a
strong, faithful fan base which ANY band should envy, not discourage.
it fills in that waiting gap between releases.  it keeps one
interested in the band.

i won't argue the legal side of it, or the profit side of reselling
boots.  those are personal decisions.  i don't always drive 55 either.
if i thought that it wasn't a victimless crime, i wouldn't do it.  i
just don't believe that i am doing anything but being a good fan by
enjoying bootlegs.
                         _,  __  _  _,  _
                   --- _(_)_/ (_</_(_)_/_)_	gregs@sharebase.com
                         /|         /|
                        |/         |/

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: 04 Sep 92 20:47:53 EDT
From: Thomas Regina <71530.417@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Bus driver and bootlegs

On the bus driver issue, I agree with Dan Lemkin. Look at the problem
from the driver's perspective. Most fans are decent; However, how can
he be sure? What if some nut insists on entering the bus, claiming to
be the holder of the Red Star? It's better for the band that the driver
takes an agressive stance against the fans.

On bootlegs, again, study the other perspective. When you buy a Rush cd,
a percentage of the sales goes to the band. Basically, you are paying
for their services, which is the enjoyment of their WORK. Yes, the band
may claim to get artistic pleasure from performing, but it is their
livelihood, i.e. their WORK. Whether you buy/sell bootlegs, or freely
distribute them doesn't matter. Bottom line: The band is not getting paid
for it's hard WORK.

On the taping of performances:
When you buy a concert ticket, you are entering a contract with the
band and management. Sometimes, on the back of the ticket you will see
fine print. One of the terms is: Management can eject anyone who does
not follow house rules(no taping). So, you are not even entitled to a
private tape of the performance.

"Now, was that a dog bark or a sonar blip?" - Doctor giving a hearing
                                              test to Geddy

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 21:32:01 -0400
From: John Caruso <caruso@socrates.umd.edu>
Subject: Bootleg practicalities

     I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other on bootlegging.
Recently on a trip to Europe, I happened to find a Rush bootleg (Fly in
the Night) in a store in Florence.  I've never seen a Rush boot, so I
picked it up (for those who haven't heard of it, it's a recording of a
concert they did in Montreal in 1980).  The sound quality is crappy,
but it does have live versions of "Farewell to Kings", "Cygnus X" [sic],
and "Cinderella Man", and for that reason alone it's worth having.

     My question is: who's been hurt because I bought this CD?  I have
every Rush album (LP or CD), live albums included.  I'll continue to
buy every album they put out.  I didn't choose this CD over a similar
licensed offering by Rush--as is the case with bootleg T-shirts, for
example--because there is no such offering.  If there were, I'd buy
it instead.  And I don't think I'm alone in this way of acting.  Casual
fans would never bother to look for a boot; hardcore fans want to have
every recording that's available.  So I've got a unique piece of Rush
history that I couldn't have gotten otherwise, and some unidentified
party somewhere, slimeball or no, is a few dollars richer.  As far as
I can see, Rush hasn't lost a thing.

     Several of the posts on this thread have adopted a high moral tone
in their condemnation.  Very commendable (and undoubtedly closer to the
laws on the books), but IMHO the furor over bootlegs isn't about morals,
it's about money.  And I don't see that Rush is losing money on the sale
of bootleg recordings.

- John

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 21:29:36 EST
From: The Professor <MGALL@ucs.indiana.edu>
Subject: Rush:  Over the Europe

Hello Fellow Rush-Heads,
    I just came back to school and didn't get on the computer 'til a couple
of days ago so I have only read the past 3 or four NMS's so go on if this
is old news...
   I was just at my local Bootleg-selling-store and what did I fumble upon
but the latest (to my knowledge) cd boot.  I realize that after all of the
debating going on about boots that I may get some hate mail for telling you
all that I bought this wonderful item.
   I go into this shop about every week when I am at school and he always
has new and old, but always exciting, Rush cd's for me.  This time, while
I was looking through the few that he had on the shelf (Life Under Pressure
and Red Stars of the Solar Federation on cd if anyone is interested) and
discussing them with the owner, he told me that he had just gotten a new
one in today but it was a double cd (meaning $54 since it is an "import")
and he wasn't sure how good it was so he had only purchased one to see if
it would sell.  The very nice owner that he is, I was allowed to listen to
this 2 cd set right there before I bought it, only to find that it is a
recording of incredible quality!!  The seven and a half minute Rhythm
Method sounds (maybe just because of my excitement) much better than the
sound of the one on A Show of Hands.  These cd's contain the whole RTB
concert!!  INCREDIBLE!!!  I am, by far, a rich person and the $54 dollars
that I spent on that cd set was my food for the month and part of the
electric bill but still very much worth it.  The quality of this cd, I
believe, is much better than that of The Fly.
    At the end of my conversation with the man that sold me the cd's, he
asked if it would be worth his while to buy more of them next time his
supplier came back and I agreed that this one would sell.  The set on the cd
goes as follows:  Intro/Force Ten, Limelight, Freewill, Red Sector A, Time
Stand Still, Dreamline, Bravado, Roll the Bones, Show Don't Tell, Big Money,
Ghost of a Chance, Subdivisions, The Pass, Where's My Thing?, The Rhythm
Method, Closer to the Heart, Xanadu, Superconductor, Tom Sawyer, and then a
final mix of: The Spirit of Radio, 2112 Overture, Finding My Way, La Villa
Strangiato, Anthem, Red Barchetta, The Spirit of Radio (Reprise), and
Cygnus X-1.
   At the bottom of the cd it has this info:
   Metal Crash worldwide distribution by MGR Records S.r.l
   Via Lamarmora 33/3 - 16035 Rapallo (GE) Italy - Fax: 39-(0)2-57402890.
                  1992
  the spine:    Rush     Over The Europe       MECD 2084/2085

This cd store often has the good and the bad boot cd's.  Normal Rush cd boots
are $30.  I agree completely that it is unfair of these company's to produce
this material without consent and then to sell it in the US but as long as
they are selling it, I will take advantage of it.
I would be happy to record any of my cd boots (including Over the Europe, The
Fly, Currently in Vogue, and Rushian Roulette) for any of you as long as I
don't get completely swamped.  And I would even be happy to help a fellow
Rush fan get a cd from this store whether you send me the money (only for the
cost of the cd and shipping) and I ship it or if you are going to be coming
through town and you want me to pick up a specific one in advance, fine.

Why are we here?     For the beer, Roll the Bones.

				The Professor

  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
  !  HEY BABY, IT'S A QUARTER TO EIGHT AND I FEEL I'M IN THE MOOD! HEY BABY!
  !  I )  I I  <~  I_I    THE HOUR IS LATE AND I FEEL I'VE GOT TO MOVE!    !
  !  I \  I_I  _>  I I    mgall@ucs.indiana.edu    BITNET=mgall@iubacs     !
  !                       mgall@amber.indiana.edu                          !
  //////////////////////////////////////\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 20:41:41 PDT
From: cholstea@Thomas.COM (Caroline Holstead- CHP)
Subject: Female RUSH fans

HELLO
Add another female RUSH fan to the NMS list.  I just found out about NMS a few
months ago, gotta love it.  Saw RUSH this past summer at Irvine Meadow, CA
what a blast. Can't beat a RUSH concert, GREAT TUNES, LOTS OF MEN, and for us
women,short lines for the bathrooms, and that a big deal after a few beers.
LATER
CAROLINE

----------------------------------------------------------

From: djabson@sdcc13.UCSD.EDU (The God of Balance)
Subject: mirror
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 92 22:57:30 PDT

	My roommate was wandering around the local thrift store
today and saw a cool thing. It's a small mirror (maybe 15 or 16
inches square) with the star/man logo and the word RUSH over the
whole thing. I don't think it's a rare item or anything but he saw
it for $1.50 so he bought it for me. Hell of a deal in my opinion
since I know _I_ for one would have payed quite a bit more for it.

	Dave

"Madmen fed on beer and fries..."

----------------------------------------------------------

From: gtas1@sunyit.edu (Terrance Stedman)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1992 16:21:03 -0400
Subject: Justification for selling boots for money???

        There's (at least) one case where selling boots for money is ok
with me.  This is when the boot is on compact disc.  Sure the prices are
usually $19-$35 U.S., but the cost to the bootlegger of making limited
pressings of these CDs justifies the price.
	I don't know about the rest of you Rush fans out there, but I own
and have played every official Rush release time and time again.  The
rate at which they release new material is too slow to satisfy me, so
bootleg recordings hold me over in the meantime.
--
 I ) I I <~ I_I   Terry Stedman
 I \ I_I _> I I   Internet: gtas1@pool.info.sunyit.edu
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Kaiser <kaiser@symcom.math.uiuc.edu>
Subject: That Fanatic from Dartmouth...
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 92 17:24:47 CDT

Two other things first...

To whoever was asking if there were people who wanted Rush boots
copied for them, please e-mail me (I lost your address).

And, I, too, am interested in a copy of the ABC Concert series video
of Rush if it is out there.  Thanks in advance.

[Now guess the stance that I'm about to take here, he..he..he]

Now, I have a question for this person who insists that this 'intellectual
property' can be controlled like, say, sugar, or any other commodity.
If I were to tape a Rush song (or any other song for that matter) off the
radio instead of actually buying it, would that be considered theft?
If I choose to videotape an NFL game, is that a theft as well?

You see, if it is truly in the realm of the intellectual, the only theft
that can occur would be to not give credit to the author of the ideas.
Otherwise, a mere discussion of Kant's philosophy or of Peart's lyrics
would be considered theft as well.  You see, the concept of theft implies
that someone is being deprived of something that once was theirs.  Rush will
always have their music and ideas, and, as long as there are the type of
fans that will sustain a daily newsletter, and as long as the band is
willing to provide new music and performances, they, too, will profit.
(Ahhhhhhhh, the benefits of capitalism...)

Now I do happen to agree that the sale of boots is pretty cheesy, but
I also think that Two Live Crew is a crappy band, and neither they nor
the people who charge for boots are infringing on anyone else's rights.
No one _HAS_ to listen to Two Live Crew nor pay the shysters.

And anyway, in two thousand years, we'll all be ice cubes 8^)!
--
				-----------------------------------------
Mark A. Kaiser			|	"Ignorance and prejudice	|
"the Red_Baron"			|	 	And fear		|
kaiser@symcom.math.uiuc.edu	|	   Walk hand in hand"		|
				|		--N. Peart		|
				------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------

Subject: I am pro-boot.
From: easy@west.darkside.com (Phil D. Croix)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 92 14:43:51 PDT

I see absolutely nothing wrong with recording concerts for ones personal
enjoyment. In fact, I think it is necessary for the preservation of a
performance that would otherwise never be heard again after it was
played. Keep making those "illegal" recordings people!
Also, you CANNOT compare the abortion issue to this insignificant
"bootleg" issue, because bootlegging does not involve the killing of a
human being.
	
	[ Please - don't let this drag into the abortions legality.
	  Let's try and keep abortion to email or other mediums  : rush-mgr ]

The Roll The Bones Tour was the highlight of my whole year! The second
leg show I saw at Shoreline Amphitheater was even more exciting. That was
the show where they dusted off Analog Kid and added into their set. I
knew they were going to play Vital Signs because my brother saw the Salt
Lake show a few days earlier. But I was blown away when I heard them play
Analog kid at least 4 times during soundcheck. I also heard Alex play the
intro to The Trees, but I NEVER expected them to play it! I thought I
would never hear VS, AK, and The Trees live at a concert and this made my
whole year! Another highlight was getting in to souncheck at Oakland and
standing right in front of the stage in an empty auditorium while Rush
played their music.
  I can understand why Neil is so protective of his privacy. PEOPLE ARE
ANNOYING!!!! How would you like it if you were constantly being followed,
stared at, and approached by complete strangers? It would get very tired
after about 2 big tours. I don't care if I never meet Geddy, Alex or Neil
because it is their MUSIC that I care about. I wouldn't mind meeting
them, but I am not going to go search them out.

Can't wait for the next album!!

Matt

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 12:46:33 cdt
From: "Sourkrauss (Krauss,Eric B)" <KRAUSS@AC.GRIN.EDU>
Subject: Gangster of Boats, Riverport Concert, Rush "pop"

Mr. Robert Cash:  No offense, but you seem to be missing the point.  Gangster
of Boats Trilogy, Part IV?  It's a joke--there cannot be 4 parts to a trilogy
(unless you're Douglass Adams, god forbid).  Rush is a band with a very wry
sense of humor, to say the least.

Chris at Wash. U.:  I'm a St. L. native, and I was at the Riverport concert
as well.  Alex and Geddy playing Neil's cowbells during "Analog Kid"--now
that was a laugh.

Gerry Good: A "rapper or something"?  I suggest you read the Spin interview w/
Neil from a few months back, and listen to the interviews ("It's a Rap, pts.
1,2,+3") on the CD singles.  Rush has always been a progressive band,
evolving with the music scene.  Presto and Roll the Bones have seen the band
become "funkier"--the new, progressive music nowadays--and more experimental
than the (in my oppinion) rather boring HYF.  In fact, I rank HYF as 2nd-
weakest Rush album (COS is the weakest, I'm afraid.  By-tor and the Snowdog?
ha ha ha)

E. Krauss
krauss@ac.grin.edu

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 6 Sep 92 13:53:47 -0400
From: supriya (Lyricist)
Subject: RUSH one and two...

One of my friends mentioned a ahem...ummm...special recording..yeah
that's it of some rush stuff called rush one and two which is apparently
two tapes of lively (pun intended) rush songs...if anyone knows
about this or has it and would be willing to tape it for me then
please write me e-mail....thanks in advance...

--Supriya

"Sometimes we are too tender, sometimes we're too tough."

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: 06 Sep 1992 14:42:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: CD-MD-RD! <TBEAUDOIN@VAX1.UMKC.EDU>
Subject: The First Annual Rush (or NMS?) Convention.

	So, fellow NMS patriots, when and where will the first-ever
RUSH convention be?  Perhaps next summer, in Toronto??

	Let's start making plans now!

Thomas Beaudoin

ORQ:"He's got a road map of Waco,
	radar-fix on the gas station bathroom key,
	attached to the hubcap"

TBEAUDOIN@VAX1.UMKC.EDU

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: 06 Sep 1992 16:06:14 -0500 (EST)
From: JAVAUGHN%DEPAUW.bitnet@UICVM.UIC.EDU
Subject: Roll the Bones, Other mailing lists.

Hello, folks.

It's been about a year since _Roll_the_Bones_ came out.  Gee whiz.

Could someone out there give me the addresses to the Pink Floyd and Yes
mailing lists?  I don't have Usenet or FTP anymore, so finding basic info
like that is kind of tricky.

Have fun,
Josh.

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: 07 Sep 1992 00:38:59 -0500 (CDT)
From: HGM is so incredible <TBEAUDOIN@VAX1.UMKC.EDU>
Subject: A ditty I wrote this summer, lamenting the NMS' absence!

A memo to the NMS office
Open letter to the NMS Queen Bee
You're a god, a king, a cheese plate
Friendly and chummy
To all the NMS subscribers
Can't everybody see?

It ought to be arriving every day
I mean the National Midnight Star!
Let's talk about this sensibly
I don't wanna go too far
I know that people have real lives,
but sans-NMS, we're subpar

I know you're absent
You know I complain
Your owner's too busy
To be taking the blame
I miss reading you, your funky reason and rhyme
Now I am forced to look at _Newsweek_ and _Time_
It's hard to beg and bleat
With no sense of shame
To cry for the NMS
Has it gone down the drain?
(alternate ending: Might as well live in Ukraine!)

Thomas Beaudoin

----------------------------------------------------------

From: mjordan@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Marc Jordan)
Subject: Stuff
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 11:30:04 CDT

Well, this is the first time in quite a while I've had a spare minute to read
the NMS, and I tell you, I'm glad to see that all of you Rush-computer-geeks
out there haven't let up any.

How's about a thread along the lines "I first heard Rush..."?

My first time was at boy scout summer camp in '78.  I heard "Lakeside Park"
off of ATWAS, and was immediately hooked.  When I got home, I happened to find
2112 (on 8-track!) just sitting there with all of my other stuff, never
played!  Then, to top it off, I almost immediately heard the announcement for
the release of Hemispheres, and was treated to the whole album one sunday
night on KLOL out of Houston.  THEN, within a coupla months, they actually
played a concert in Bum-F@$#% Beaumont.  I was in heaven.

BTW, I still haven't figured out how they got Yoko Ono to pose for the inside
cover of RTB...

Later,
Marc

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 7 Sep 92 17:41:34 -0400
From: jlang (~ Rush Fanatic ~)
Subject: Which way?

>Date: Thu, 3 Sep 1992 19:25:26 -0500
>From: lemkin@simon.wustl.edu
>Subject: Tom Whittaker(The Bus Driver)
>
>Boy that is really profound! The basis of this attack is that he abruptly told
>a fan not to follow the tour bus across the country to another concert.

Sorry, the basis for the "attack" (if you can call it one) is not that
he abruptly told me not to follow the tour bus.  I asked  for
DIRECTIONS, he told me not to follow the bus.  Then threatens me that he
would call the Highway Patrol if he caught me following the bus.
I think any polite bus driver would just say yeah, you take 8 East to
805 North to 52 West to 5 north.  Not jump on my case cuz I don't
have directions.  Last I checked it wasn't crime to ask for
directions.  I understand the bit about being leery about wacky fans,
but not about giving out directions.  That's not a big deal.

>	Please note, this is not an attack on the writer of the Rush
>following story, he explained his case, and the incident was evidently an
>over-reaction on the drivers part. But I suggest that his actions can be
>understood given the nature of his position.

I agree with the above.  The driver over-reacted.  Hell, if would have
been ok if he mentioned "go to 7-11 and buy a map!".

-Jimmy
jlang@syrinx.umd.edu

PS.  If anyone wants a copy of the latest tour listing, send me some email.
The listing has been updated with all the RTB dates.  Especially for the
newer subscribers.  'nuff said.

----------------------------------------------------------

To submit material to The National Midnight Star, send mail to:

    rush@syrinx.umd.edu

For administrative matters (subscription, unsubscription, changes, and 
questions), send mail to:

    rush-request@syrinx.umd.edu    or
    rush-mgr@syrinx.umd.edu

There is now anonymous ftp access available on Syrinx.  The network
address to ftp to is:

    syrinx.umd.edu       or       128.8.2.114

When you've connected, userid is "anonymous", password is <your userid>.
Once you've successfully logged on, change directory (cd) to 'rush'.

There is also a mail server available (for those unable or unwilling to
ftp).  For more info, send email with the subject line of HELP to:

    server@ingr.com

These requests are processed nightly.  Use a subject line of MESSAGE to
send a note to the server keeper or to deposit a file into the archive.

The contents of The National Midnight Star are solely the opinions and 
comments of the individual authors, and do not necessarily reflect the 
opinions of the authors' management, or the mailing list management.

Copyright The Rush Fans Mailing List, 1992.

Editor, The National Midnight Star
(Rush Fans Mailing List)
********************************************
End of The National Midnight Star Number 506
********************************************



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