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Subject: 10/08/92 - The National Midnight Star #532
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----------------------------------------------------------------------


          The National Midnight Star, Number 532

                 Thursday, 8 October 1992
Today's Topics:
                     Response to #530
         quit complaining about the 'rap' in RTB
                       Click tracks
     I heard a woman scream... or was it a car crash?
                 Can we stick to RUSH!?!
                   Personalized songs?
            New RUSH Releases (Chronicles II?)
                   RARITIES IMPOSSIBLE
                       NME and DIY
                   Kim Mitchell on Tour
                     Random Thoughts
               The previous TNMS/Interview
            2112, and the debate continues...
             Anthem (the book) & 2112, again
----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1992 19:18:15 -0400
From: Scott Lawr Matthews <mrbungle@brahms.udel.edu>
Subject: Response to #530

Praise be to those (at least most of them) who submitted commentary to
issue #530. I just got through reading it, and it seemed to me the most
productive issue in a while...
  On Dream Theater, the sound is not as much like Rush and Yes as every-
one says. I would liken them to Fates' Warning if given the choice. Their
virtuosity and odd-time signatures are their only resemblaces to Rush.
  Whoever suggested that the word "sucks" never be used again on this net
deserves a round of applause. This is a service for those who LIKE Rush,
not for those who like one song or one album or even one era - if you
don't like something, that's your opinion, but I don't see it being of
interest to Rush FANS.
  I also like the idea of getting together a collection of rare Rush live
and studio recordings. I don't really have anything in my collection that
deviates too much from available songs, but I thought I'd second the idea.
  As I don't have anything informational to add, I'll end this now...
- Scott, Follower of the Mighty Lerxst (and Mr. Bungle)
p.s. There seems to be a lot of talk about Dream Theatre here, as well as
on alt.music.progressive, alt.rock-n-roll.metal/metal.heavy/metal.pro-
gressive, etc. Although I don't have the means to do it myself, would
anyone who does be interested in starting a Dream Theater mailing list ?

      [ Please if you respond, do so via email.  Thanks.    :rush-mgr ]

p.s. 2. - what's this rumor about that there will be a new Rush album
out in November ? That would be impossible, as the release date would al-
ready be published, but does anyone know if there are plans to go into
the studio, etc. ?

      [ In yesterday's Digest it was revealed Rush will be working on
	their new material AFTER the New Year.		: rush-mgr ]
----------------------------------------------------------

From: rone@ucs.usc.edu (Ron Echeverri)
Subject: quit complaining about the 'rap' in RTB
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 16:47:39 PDT

it may sound and look like rap, but it's not.  just because the group
decided to fool around with the vocalization of some of the lyrics does
not mean that they're switching genres.... i really think this is pretty
darned silly.  it was just an EXPERIMENT fer chrissakes.

that given, i'd like to thank the people who responded to my query as to
which new album i should buy.  by a vote of 2-1-1, i'm gettin' Hemispheres.

5150
sometimes i wish la villa strangiato was longer

----------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Click tracks
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 92 16:56:11 -0700
From: gimper@leland.Stanford.EDU

Hello again,

Just thought I'd throw in a couple more cents worth of stuff...
In TNMS #530, white@mhd1.moorhead.msus.edu (white aaron) writes:

>Neil uses the headphones you often see him wearing in concert for a click
>track. This is neccesary to keep time in songs that uses sequences that
>are punched in and out at random times. This is in response to someones
>question last issue.
>
>/\aron L. White

Well, yes and no.  As another poster mentioned, Neil does use headphones
to stay in sync with the keyboards on "Red Sector A".  But for the most
part, Neil does not use them to sync with sequencers -- he'll use it more
to sync the band with video clips, e.g. the skeleton during "Roll The
Bones" and Aimee Mann during "Time Stand Still".

Other than that, there are many songs with lots of sequencers that Neil
does not wear headphones on like Force Ten, Distant Early Warning, The
Big Money, etc.  In fact, I would bet that most post-p/g songs have some
sequencers in them.  Anyway, to back up my claim, here's a clip from an
interview with Geddy I transcribed a while back.  (Keyboard Magazine,
9/84, available as ged.kybd.9-84 from syrinx in the rush/special
directory.)

(Kybd)  When you start a song can you tell if the tempo is going to be
right when the sequencer comes in?

(Geddy) Sometimes you know when you're right out to lunch, too!
Sometimes the sequencer part comes in and, "Whoa, pull back on
the reins here."  Occasionally we're too slow; it can vary. We're
human beings, and it depends on what we've been eating or how
fired up we are.  But Neil works real hard on making sure his
tempos are steady and there's very rarely a problem of being out of
sync.  Some songs aren't much of a problem because there's so much
sequencer.  If the sequencer starts the song, the tempo is
established right away and we're pretty well locked.  But songs like
"The Body Electric" [from _Grace Under Pressure_], where the
sequencers only come in for the choruses, you have to make sure
that you're playing the right tempo to begin with.

Okay, next topic.  :-)  "Robert (R.A.) Herrage" <herrage@bnr.ca> writes:

>> tvos@ais.org asks:
>>
>> > Question, who actually does the melody intro for the three blind mice?
>
>I recall reading/hearing (either by interview or from Modern Drummer)
>that Neil said that he does not want to take something that exists and
>just tape it.  He uses his electronic equipment (MIDI?) to recreate
>something that he likes.  As I recall, the 3 Stooges intro was his own
>recreation of the theme.
>
>Rob

I'm not so sure about this.  (Rob, I edited your text so it's a bit out
of context.  I'm not attacking you personally...)  :-)

This is from the 12/89 issue of _Modern Drummer_.   (neil.md.1289 in
rush/special at syrinx.)

WFM:  One of the things in your solo that I like were the horn kicks at the
end.  Were you triggering those yourself?
NP:  Yes I was.  There was an interesting story behind that section of the
solo.  I took the idea from a Count Basie CD that I have.  I sampled the horn
hits off the CD and triggered them live, but I didn't feel right about using
someone else's sounds on our record.  I have strict morality about sampling,
and it's one reason why I use mostly my samples.  I don't like think that they
have been robbed off of someone else's records.

But I dont' think this was in reference to the "Three Stooges" theme.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...  :-)

Okay this is long enough for today.  See y'all...

-- Stuart  (gimper@leland.stanford.edu)

----------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Oct 92 21:12 EDT
From: <MLS154@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: I heard a woman scream... or was it a car crash?

As long as Ive been reading TMS for almost 2 years Id guess, everyone has been
trying to decipher blips and beeps or some sound that they cant identify.
Jeez, how long did the conversation over the dog barks in dreamline go on?
To this day, it has never sounded like a dog to me.  More like a metallicized
wood block sound.  It just seems as though there are so many more interesting
topics for which we can find answers...

Does anyone know where the name for the RTB bootleg "The Fly" came from?

Does anyone know the difference between the "Spirit of St. Louis" and
"La Villa Strangiato" bootlegs?

Has anyone found any really good CD bootlegs?  Currently in Vogue is pretty
good and I happen to like La Villa Strangiato...  One thing that I have
been desperately searching for is a bootleg version of Grand Designs..

Tell me what you think...
            Mark Shulman

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 08:22:00 +0000
From: "Robert (R.A.) Herrage" <herrage@bnr.ca>
Subject: Can we stick to RUSH!?!

I keep seeing these posts like "I know that this isn't the place, but..."
for bands like "Dream Theater", etc.  I'm not wanting to start a flame
war but, since you know it isn't the place for it, then don't do it.
Put it out on "rec.music.misc" :)

Maybe we can all do something like little small "P.S."s at the end of a
post that says "if you want some XXXX info, send me email".  We've cur-
rently got enough stuff to wade through without excess non-RUSH stuff.

How 'bout it, rushmgr...can you taper this off some?  Every now and then
a single post might be okay, but it seems like almost every NMS issue has
a "Dream Theater" post in it.

	[ Rob, you're absolutely correct.  People, from now on, do 
	  followups via EMAIL and NOT the NMS.  	:rush-mgr ]
Rob

P.S. Please understand that I'm not knocking "Dream Theater".  It's just
     that I subscribed to this for RUSH info -- not other bands :)

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 09:43:47 EDT
From: Doug White <dwhite@dsys.ncsl.nist.gov>
Subject: Personalized songs?

On the way in this morning, I heard Skynyrd's "Saturday Night Special", and
that reminded me of an interview I heard with their drummer. He said that
if you listen to that tune, you can tell he was angry about a friend who
had been shot & killed not long before by a mugger. The drumming _does_
sound like he's pi**ed off.

I'm wondering if there are any background tales about some of Rush's songs,
similar to that. Afterimage and Scars are probably based on someone
(probably that Neil knew). Any stories?
Doug

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 10:10:46 CDT
From: mjb55529@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: New RUSH Releases (Chronicles II?)

'Lo folks!

Just a question...I remeber a post on TNMS concerning a new Rush
release in Nov.

#1.  Is this true?
#2.  Is the original post still around? (If so could someone email it
					 to me?)
#3.   If not....could someone rehash the article for me....I have a
	bunch of Rush fans on my floor here at the University of
	Illinois  and we would all greatly appreciate this info.
#4.   Am I alone in thinking that CoS is one of Rush's "neatest"
	albums.  I mean "neat" in a sense that it was an interesting
	idea brought about in a beautiful and timely manner....with
	the music just as overpowering as the meaning of the song
	itself.
#5.   Thanx everyone!

--
mjb55529@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: 	Thu, 8 Oct 1992 12:55:00 -0400
From: lorne.murphy@rose.com
Subject: RARITIES IMPOSSIBLE

Date Entered: 10-08-92 12:49

Regarding the rarities tapes. This is an excellent idea for Genesis and
Yes lists... but Rush? What's rare other than the first single and
perhaps "Take off"??  "Battlescar" isn't rare, it's on an album! As far
as I'm considered, if a track is on an album, it's NOT rare. I've seen
LOADS of rare Rush STUFF in some shops in Toronto, but none of it was of
an audio nature.

Has anyone noticed the extreme resemblence between the B-Side to that
first single, "You can't fight it" (Lee/Rutsey?) and Led Zep's "Rock
And Roll"? Take a closer listen if you don't see what I mean....

Lorne.

%Well I see you standin' there with your finger in the air....%
---
   RoseMail 2.00 : Usenet: Rose Media - Hamilton (416) 575-5363

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: 08 Oct 1992 12:26:58 -0600 (MDT)
From: Roo-Dog Rip <D_DURRETT%KAOS@VAXF.Colorado.EDU>
Subject: NME and DIY

Normally, I feel like I'm aware of the world around me and able to figure
things out(maybe that's why I'm in physics), but these two acronyms from the
Kerrang interview have me baffled, and I can't even begin to guess from the
context. What are NME and DIY? Does anyone know?

Roo-Dog Rip
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
\Roo-Dog Rip is:                  <> "O! What a rogue and peasant slave am I!"/
\Derrell Durrett                  <>                 --- _Hamlet_ II, ii, 584 /
\D_DURRETT%KAOS@VAXF.COLORADO.EDU <>   High Energy Physics: The New Religion! /
\Vox:(303)492-4821|Fax:492-5119   <>                Get Some Today!           /
\-----------------------------------------------------------------------------/
\ High Energy Physics Group | University of Colorado | Boulder, Colorado, USA /

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 12:27:52 -0700
From: David Conley <dmc@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Kim Mitchell on Tour

This post is somewhat Rush related. I heard a blurb on local radio
that Kim Mitchell (for those that don't know, formerly of Max
Webster) will be appearing in Seattle at the Backstage in Ballard
I think sometime at the end of this month. This most likely means that
he is on some kind of tour, be it regional or national. Check your
local listing. Can anyone local confirm this or provide more concrete
info???

Cheers,
----Dave

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 15:50:57 -0400
From: jlang (~ Rush Fanatic ~)
Subject: Random Thoughts

>Subject: Rush & Neil
>From: timg@valinor.mythical.com (Tim Gross)
>Date: Sun, 04 Oct 92 20:38:06 CDT
>
>A couple months ago Moddern Drummer stated Neil Pert as haveing Lukemia
>is this TRUE.....? Is that why he has no hair (radiaton treatment) and
>wore a bandanna in the Roll the Bones Tour..? IF so fight it in to
>reccession.

Tim, please, unless you can *specifically* point out which Modern
Drummer magazine "a couple of months ago" stated the above, let's give
the old rumor a rest.  This is how it all starts out.  People assume
they've read something when in fact Modern Drummer has not printed
anything like that.  BTW, it should be Peart, (a funny story comes to
mind when Neil was asked about his name saying it was not like the
shampoo Pert).

>Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 15:33:50 -0300
>From: x92fca@px2.stfx.ca (Roy Germon)
>Subject: ASOH Video question
>
>I have a trivial question for anyone out there.  I have the ASOH video,
>and in the final song, a medley of 2112/in the mood/Villa Strangatio I
>believe, there is a part where Alex takes the mike.  The vocal portion is
>edited out of this particulat segment.  Someone out there must know what
>is said.  While I'm here...

The answer to that was answered on one of the Rockline shows during
Presto, I forget which Rockline it was but a whole series of them can be
gotten off the anonymous ftp directory on syrinx.  (Try ~ftp/rush/special)

Also, does anyone else know about the Hemispheres concert on QFM96 in
Columbus, OH this past week?  I know Doug posted about it but no one
else seems to have heard.  Doug, did you find out anything from the
station?

Well, the Jays lost the first game, looks like Geddy is still sweating
it out at the old ballpark.  Nice HR by Winfield too.

-Jimmy
jlang@syrinx.umd.edu

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1992 14:52:27 -0500
From: Jason Crawford <me12792@camelot.bradley.edu>
Subject: The previous TNMS/Interview

I would personally like to thank James for typing out the interview
with Geddy and Alex.  I thought that it was very, very good and should
hopefully put and end to the "Old vs. New" posts.  The band itself
summed it all up...each album and song is a stepping stone and if
the old Rush is better than the new Rush, then they wouldn't have
been around for as long as they have been.  New Rush isn't better
than old, each album is right for its time.  Anyway, enough on that
subject.  I was thinking of having a "Rushfest" party sometime soon
at my dorm, does anyone have suggestions?  When I lived in Pennsylvania
we had one and made videos and just plain listened to every song
on every album.  Any other suggestions?  "Get out there and rosk
(thats rock) and ROLL THE BONES!"...
*******************************************************************************
[][][][][]  [][]  [][]  [][][][][]  [][]         **  me12792@camelot.bradley.edu
[][]        [][]  [][]  [][]        [][]         **  "...a pocket
[][]        [][]  [][]  [][][][][]  [][][][][]   **   full of silver
[][]        [][]  [][]        [][]  [][]  [][]   **   is the key
[][]        [][][][][]  [][][][][]  [][]  [][]   **   to heaven's
roll the bones - roll the bones - roll the bones **   door..."-Neil
*
********************************************************************************

----------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 92 13:23:33 PDT
From: qsp!danb@uunet.UU.NET (Daniel Benbenisty)
Subject: 2112, and the debate continues...

Jim Gordon:
>        I didn't think that the hero in 2112 committed suicide.  Do any of the
> band members actually say that?  The line "my life's blood/Spills over" might
> just refer to his emotional turmoil, and intense desire to change his world.
Good point - the 'suicide' is not terribly explicit.  However, don't forget
the line (I'm paraphrasing from memory) "I don't think I can carry on...
carry on this cold and empty life...Oh NO!"

From: "BRIAN'SAKNOB (Shende,Vineet A)" <SHENDE@AC.GRIN.EDU>:
> By the way, Dan.  I am also a musician, (as a matter of fact, at the moment I
> am writing a full length symphony) who enjoys new Rush, though I do think the
"Full Length?"  You mean, not even an EP? ;-)  Anyway, please see my earlier
post(s) regarding "musical credentials."  The reason I stated mine was in
response to someone implying I wasn't "prepared" to discuss 18-19th cent music.

I also stated that, before I met all the All-Rush fans on NMS, I had never
met any musicians who liked new Rush.  Well, apparently the NMS is not a
statistical cross-section people who like any/all Rush.  I think you almost
HAVE to like the current Rush material to muster up enough enthusiasm to read
and post to a Rush-devoted maillist.  Me, I'm just bored out of my skull. 8-)

Anyway that's fine, cause maybe I can gain some insight into New Rush that
I've missed, with so many musicians and thoughtful listeners pointing to
this and that in New Rush....

From: The Analog Kid <PY297HG%UVMVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
> Those who keep whining that they wish that they had remained progressive are,
> in a way, being oxymoronic, as it is impossible to remain and progress at the
> same time.

This sort of sophistry is dangerous because it is so clever.  I will explain:
Just so people understand my position, I have no problem with New Rush (post 82)
musicianship, production, sounds, etc.  Just composition - that's mostly what
moves me.  The are plenty (too many) good musicians out there - hardly any of
them write interesting music.  IMHO, Rush's compositional peak was 2112-MP/PeW.
The way they managed to weave themes back and forth over the course of a
half-album was quite mature (contrary to some opinions) and ingenious in some
cases.  This is musically explorative, challenging, and rare - repeating a
5-word chorus 37 times is not.  Just because a band has changed doesn't mean
that they have progressed.  They HAVE changed to a more repetitious, radio-
friendly (better spacing for commercials) that is closer to what the rest of
the music world is already doing (so we don't need yet another band doing it).
Just because a band REMAINS original does not mean they have NOT progressed!

	[ And now that you've made this point, anyone wishing to respond
	  PLEASE do so via EMAIL personally to Dan.  That way Dan can
	  carry on the ongoing debate about his opinion on old vs. new
	  with other people in *EMAIL* so that readers who don't care
	  about the personal debates over Rush musical preference don't
	  have to read about it in a public forum.  This thing is
	  getting out of hand anyways.  Thanks for your input.  rush-mgr ]
	
I have a friend who took his girlfriend to a Rush concert  (She's not a
musician, OK?).  She is starting to get into Rush, but said something
interesting while Rush was repeating the "Show Me Don't Tell Me" chorus
for the Nth time: "God, when is this going to end?"

Now, to all those people who are debating OvsN, please stop appending
"Now with this in mind, let's move on to another topic" to their messages.
This is sort of hypocritical.  If you're going to debate, debate.  Don't
put yourself on a high-horse.  If your opinion is that Rush has changed
but not gotten worse - well, that's just YHO and you're just contributing
to the debate.  And, as I said earlier, there's nothing wrong with an
inconclusive debate - it can be educational for both sides.

	[ Hipocritical?  First off, this *IS NOT* a debate forum. 
	  Certainly debates could come out of it but it DOES reach a
	  point where it's time to carry it to another medium, like
	  EMAIL.  There's nothing I see hipocritical about making a
	  comment and then saying, "let's get on with it", some people
	  just aren't into debating some topics but *do* have an
	  opinion on it!  Outside of that, send some EMAIL!  And yes
	  if you reply to this, send *ME* email, don't followup up this
	  comment to the rest of the list.  		: rush-mgr ]

By the way, has anyone 'shroomed to Hemispheres? ;-*

I love this list!
	
>>>===Pan-Handle-Dan===>	danb@qsp.com
Daniel Benbenisty		Guitarist for EARWURM

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 92 15:02:24 CDT
From: ervan@cs.rice.edu (Ervan Darnell)
Subject: Anthem (the book) & 2112, again

When I first read Anthem, I took 2112 to be an effort to put it
to song.  I was surprised to read that Neil realized afterwards
the similarities.

WARNING: 'Anthem' SPOILERS follow

Here are the similarities between Anthem and 2112:
Anthem:
Everyone is 'we'.  'I' is no longer in the language
2112:
"It's one for all and all for one; We work together common sons"

Anthem:
The protagonist lives in a near future communist distopia
where every aspect of life is controlled.
2112:
"We're taking care of everything", etc.

Anthem:
The protagonist discovers a light bulb (and generator)
in an abandoned tunnel/shelter.
2112:
a guitar is discovered in a cave.

Anthem:
He realizes this could change the world
2112:
ditto

Anthem:
He presents it to the council and assumes they'll immediately see
what a good idea it is.
2112:
ditto:

Anthem:
The council rejects it because it is heretical and would be impossible
to ever approve (over the objections of the candle makers).
2112:
The priests reject the guitar as a dangerous return to the past.

Anthem:
The council tries to arrest the protagonist for even suggesting such
a thing.  He escapes.
2112:
The priests destroy the guitar and the protagonist escapes/leaves.

Anthem:
The protagonist eventually flees into the woods there finding
relics of the previous civilization and realizes how terrible
the current circumstances are.
2112:
The oracle tells of what life was and what it could again be.

And finally, the ending is somewhat different.
Anthem:
The protagonist survives and starts rebuilding civilization as
it used to be, i.e. with individual freedom and egoism as the
guiding force allowing each person to change his/her circumstance.
2112:
The protagonist commits suicide before the elder race returns
to make civilization what it was once before (my interpretation),
"home to change...".

----------------------------------------------------------

To submit material to The National Midnight Star, send mail to:

    rush@syrinx.umd.edu

For administrative matters (subscription, unsubscription, changes, and 
questions), send mail to:

    rush-request@syrinx.umd.edu    or
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There is now anonymous ftp access available on Syrinx.  The network
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    syrinx.umd.edu       or       128.8.2.114

When you've connected, userid is "anonymous", password is <your userid>.
Once you've successfully logged on, change directory (cd) to 'rush'.

There is also a mail server available (for those unable or unwilling to
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These requests are processed nightly.  Use a subject line of MESSAGE to
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The contents of The National Midnight Star are solely the opinions and 
comments of the individual authors, and do not necessarily reflect the 
opinions of the authors' management, or the mailing list management.

Copyright The Rush Fans Mailing List, 1992.

Editor, The National Midnight Star
(Rush Fans Mailing List)
********************************************
End of The National Midnight Star Number 532
********************************************




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