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Subject: 11/29/92 - The National Midnight Star #570

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(Administrative postings to the posting address will be ignored!)

----------------------------------------------------------------------


          The National Midnight Star, Number 570

                 Sunday, 29 November 1992
Today's Topics:
                      Administrivia
               First Post: general comments
              Album cover/2nd favorite group
                          (none)
                 Christianity vs. Rush???
              Black Holes and Time Magazine
            Unreleased live tracks on singles
                Rush vs. Christian values
                   whip cracking on YYZ
                  rush and christianity
             Survey, Religion, and Everything
              Re: Rush vs. Christian values
                      Woodstock #25
                           Rush
----------------------------------------------------------

From: rush-mgr
Date: Sun, 29 Nov 1992
Subject: Administrivia

There was no digest for Thursday or Friday, so this one has all those posts
and any since. We've been doing a major overhaul of the ftp site on syrinx in
the images directory. Most notably, most of the album covers have been
replaced with better images and some new images were added. Check the CONTENTS
file for more information.

- rush-mgr

----------------------------------------------------------

From: Bradford T Ritchie <btr@kepler.unh.edu>
Subject: First Post: general comments
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 16:54:32 EST

  Hello fellow RUSH fans!!

	This is my first post. (*whew* glad that's over!)

T-shirts ==> Great idea!! I'll definitely buy a couple.  If I may offer a
    couple of suggestions (I hope it's not too late for them to be considered)
    I like Meg's design so far except that I, too, think that the email address
    should simply read "rush@syrinx.umd.edu" instead of "rush-mgr".  I really
    think it has a more collective feel to it as someone else mentioned earlier
    (don't remember who, sorry).   Also, I think BLACK as a shirt color would
    go great with the red star.  Grey and white are also good but BLUE,
    especially with red, definitely wouldn't do it.

CD idea ==> Great idea again!!! I'll definitely buy a couple. :)  However, I
    think the reality of dragging this dream into existence means going for a
    really high quality cassette rather than trying to undertake a CD pressing
    ourselves.  I, along with everyone else would prefer a CD, of course.  But
    I just think a tape would be a lot EASIER, would get done a lot SOONER, and
    we would run less risk of getting busted (sorry Al and Eric, although it
    would be preferable, I just can't see Anthem (or the band, really) giving
    us any permission at all to do this.  Plus if they DID, it's my guess there
    would be more restrictions and hassle that would be worth).
    Sammy Jarnot mentioned having access to DAT.  I say let's go for it (with
    your permission of course, Sammy! :) )

    As far as the contents of the tape/CD go, let me second Al Wolf's sug-
    gestion of 1 with rarities and 1 with live stuff.  This is another advan-
    tage of producing a tape instead of a CD (but, damn!, wouldn't a CD be
    great!)

Other comments:
- I never really minded the "flatline" seperator, but I tend to think that a
  new "PeW" separator would be more distracting than anything else.

- My least favorite song vote goes to "Rivendell"!! I like the lyrics, espec-
  ially having read Tolkein, but overall, it never seems to get off the ground.
  Otherwise, there aren't any songs I *dislike* like...not even "Take a Friend"!

- And for Wayne Torman: My second favorite band would probably be Triumph
  (remember them?)  All through high school it was Rush and them.

- also: since you asked about the mystery mumblings in "I Think I'm Going Bald",
  does anyone know what's happening during solo part of "The Camera Eye"?  It
  sounds like a mistake but some people are better at deceiphering these things
  than I am.  If anyone knows please email me! :)

- I am absoultely not sorry for such a long post, though I dislike them too.

- Take it easy!

				-Brad

----------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Wed, 25 Nov 92 17:32:56 CST
From: Luis Arturo Loyo Delgado <B249808@VMTECQRO.QRO.ITESM.MX>
Subject:      Album cover/2nd favorite group

Hi all,

   Just my 2 cents. My favorite album cover is, above all, PRESTO.
>From the moment I saw the CD in the store, I loved this cover. The boyz
are known by their sense of humor, and I think this is great in a band!!

   An about my secon favorite group, I would go for KISS (I know they're
not up to the musical and lyrical level of Rush, but I heard Kiss a lot
before RUSH!!)

   Enough.

Pirri.
"We pretend things only happen to stangers..."

----------------------------------------------------------

From: mhill@1302.watstar.uwaterloo.ca
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 18:35:26 EST

X-1 wasn't just tacked on there by Peart. There does exist a black hole named
"Cygnus X-1", probably in the constellation Cygnus.

Rarities CD: I think the material selected for this should be selected based on
overall musical quality, not just based on "rarity". No interview material
PLEASE, just music, with the occasional humorous blurb.

+-------------------------------\-------------------------------+
| Martin Hill                    \  Systems Design Engineering  |
| mhill@1302.watstar.uwaterloo.ca \   University of Waterloo    |
+----------------------------------\----------------------------+

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1992 19:55:31 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Halsey <rhalse20@ursa.Calvin.EDU>
Subject: Christianity vs. Rush???

I would like to say something about this issue, as I am both a Christian
and also  a HUGE Rush fan...

I used to buy into the $#!+ that the far right evangelicals would say
about rock music in general.  In fact, it is funny that someone mentioned
the idea  about the star from 2112, because the first time that I remember
hearing about the band was at a seminar that my parents made me go to that
ripped on every area of rock music.  Since that time (about 8 years ago),
I now understand a lot more about rock music and also about these rightist
idiots.   My main point is this:  people in the evangelical Christian
community eat this stuff up!  Since there is a market of people who are
willing to have what they already believe confirmed by "experts", this
propaganda will continue.

My own personal conviction is this:  Nothing in itself is inherently evil.
If some people want to try to call Rush a bunch of Satanists over a
supposed  Satanic star, then more power to them.  I, however, am not
willing to condemn three of the greatest musicians on this fact alone.
However,  a point that one could logically make about Rush concerns the
existentialist lyrics that come from Mr. Peart.  Most fundamentalist
Christians would say that it is hard to justify man's existence without
having a  reason to exist (to serve God).  This is a problem, as Neil
seems to  believe that if there is a God, he has no interests in mankind
(I could  be wrong, but I think that is what he said in the satanism
essay).   This would be hard for a Christian to accept.

My own view on the band and their philosophy is this:  I find it
interesting to examine other worldviews other than my own.  The song "Roll
the Bones , for example, has nothing in common with my own worldview.
However, by listening to another  person's way of looking at life, I gain an
appreciation for the diversity of thought that I believe we were endowed
with at birth (see .sig below).  Therefore, one will never again catch me
condemning ANYONE on the basis of their _presumed_ Satanism,
anti-Christian values, or anything else along these lines!

Just a liberal Christian who has listened to the far right too long...

* rhalse20@calvin.edu is...* -OVERHEARD AND QUOTABLE- * "So get out there
Rob Halsey (A.K.A. Trebor) *  "Bend over, bend over,  *  and rock, and
Calvin College  Phi 33     *  'cuz "Slick Willie" is  *  ROLL THE BONES!"
Grand Rapids, MI 49546     *  takin' over!!!"         *        -Rush

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Nov 92 21:04:02 -0500
From: jaeger@buphy.bu.edu (Gregg Jaeger)
Subject: Black Holes and Time Magazine

The number of mailings to the last TNMS about the _real_ Cygnus X-1
demonstrate that black holes are no longer unknown to the educated public.
In fact, Neil became fascinated by black holes and first read about Cygnus
X-1 by reading a Time magazine article. Just wanted to nip any rumours
about Neil's having a Ph.D. in astrophysics (yeah, he did his thesis on
the temperature of black holes, disagreeing with both Hawking and the
physics community at large, NOT).

Gregg

Gregg Jaeger (jaeger@buphy)  Dept. of Physics (and Philosophy), Boston Univ.
"You see, the quantum mechanical description is in terms of knowledge" -Peierls
"One can _not_ put the psi-function... in place of the... thing" -Schroedinger
                   _De gustibus non disputandum_, NOT!

----------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Holdsworth <dholdswo@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Unreleased live tracks on singles
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 92 12:30:49 CST

Someone recently mentioned the "previously unreleased" live tracks on a
European (?) Roll the bones CD single: Tom Sawyer and The Spirit of radio.

A few years ago I bought the "Time stands still" CD single with two
previously unreleased live tracks: "Witch hunt" and "The Enemy within".
Turns out they are the same versions as on the p/g tourvid! This didn't
bother me much because I tend to buy any Rush product I see. But it is
a bit annoying when it says "Previously unreleased" when it has been
released on a different medium. They could at least put "Previously
unreleased on CD" to clarify it.

***************************************************************************
          Dave Holdsworth <dholdswo@physics.adelaide.edu.au>
   Dept Phys. & Math Phys. , University of Adelaide, S.A., Australia

----------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Rush vs. Christian values
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 92 09:58:17 +0000
From: Jonathan Sharp <J.Sharp@axion.bt.co.uk>

Greetings one and all,

I've been reading TNMS for quite a while now and have not posted.
I was thinking of getting a T-shirt so I thought I really should!
This whole topic was done to death about a year ago in the Rush
news group,  so at the risk of this degenerating like the last one
I'll bite...

I'm a Christian Rush fan.  There are quite a few of us actually.
Here is how I approch the problem.  First of all I think that
anyone who is adamant that Rush are/were a  group of satanists
deserves all scorn they get.  All that stuff about the red star
is clearly rather silly.  There are however more genuine objections
to some of Neil's  beliefs which might make some Christians feel
uncomfortable.  The general theme of the last album being a case
in point.  Most of it is about fate, life being all one big roll
of the dice.  Quotes from freewill, Tom Sawyer etc are normally
banded about.  There is little doubt that Neil is at least agnostic,
probably an atheist, and reflects this in his lyrics.  No doubt
someone else will post some specific examples.

The question then becomes do I feel comfortable listening to beliefs
which are at odds with my own.  The answer for me is yes, but I
understand why some don't.  Personally, I find most of Neil's lyrics
well thought out and I enjoy them.  Then of course there is the fact
that their music is incomparable to most of the very bland
"Christian rock/metal" that is out there.  I have found very few
Christian bands who take their musical composition seriously.

Mark Jager wrote
>Oh, if you're curious, my other most-favorite bands are
>Kings X and Megadeth.  (I'm not kidding.)

Kings X of course being an exception :-)

Hope this helps,
Send the flames to /dev/hell

Jonathan.

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Nov 1992 10:51:01 -0600 (CST)
From: MaCHINE! <TBEAUDOIN@VAX1.UMKC.EDU>
Subject: whip cracking on YYZ

	I guess i always thought that was a sampled sound, or even
completely electronically generated.  Not true?

Thomas Beaudoin

----------------------------------------------------------

Subject: rush and christianity
From: wilkinso@west.darkside.com (Sean Flanegan)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 92 12:39:11 PST

    First post in about a year!!!!   Well here is what I think about this
arguement.  Rush music has an underlying theme that supports the idea
that everyone is free thinking and that you decide your own fate.
(Freewill, rtb,etc..) On the other hand ( I am not a true authority on
Christian values so correct me if I am wrong in my explanation) , it is
my understanding that Christians believe that our lives are controlled by
God, and that what happens to us is destined to happen. One other belief
that Neil has shown is his that he believes in evolution, whereas strict
Christians believe in Adam & Eve. (High Water)

however, Neil does not condem Christianity, He believes in Freewill and if
that includes a belief in Christianity, thats cool!!

I also remember seeing a picture pf Neil in Visions (around 1974-75)
with a cross around his neck.

sean

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 10:50:15 GMT
From: Russell Marks (Zgedneil) <mr1cy1@greenwich.ac.uk>
Subject: Survey, Religion, and Everything

Ok, rush-type people, I've held off far too long from this survey result, so
that appears at the end of this post. But read the stuff before as well
please (aw go on :-) )

Right, a few things.
Kevin (the one in NMS567) with the sig -- I *think* the "sights on the
stars" is from Best I Can, right? Lyrics by GL, not NP? (Sorry if I'm wrong,
not currently got FBN with me at terminal)

<serious mode on>

Aha, religion and Rush. I expect this is a not-so-golden oldie, but here's
my 2p. (that'll phase you US peeps) I think Rush generally, and Neil in
particular, don't like the idea of sticking to a set philosophy which you
either inherit or decide you like bits of. This is essentially, in my
opinion, how you are introduced to religion. They (and he) instead prefer
the logical option of deciding what you want to do, as much as possible,
yourself; and if you wish to, devising your own value system as opposed to
adopting somebody else's. My general idea of basically not doing nasty
things if possible is, admittedly, present in many religions. However, I
came to that conclusion *myself* and I know it makes sense to me,
personally, I haven't just thought 'hey I like that'. The problem with this
is that you can decide to, for instance, be a Christian. That's free will,
folks. But in many respects you lose it from that point on. As you may have
gathered, I have been an atheist many years now, but try to respect other
people's beliefs. To get back to Rush (wake up people) I think that it fits
in with both religion and non-religion, for the reasons outlined above.
However, I think it fits with atheism best, but then I would :-)

"And another thing...!" About the Fear trilogy. They're connected by the
concept of fear. That's it, really. Different aspects of fear. The Enemy
Within, The Weapon, Witch Hunt. You can tell what they're about really from
even just the titles, to some extent.

<serious mode off>

However, so much for the Rush content!, back to the poll.
Interesting results... 56 people gave their occupation, which, if there's
about 1500 on the NMS, makes that 3.7% of the readership. Not great, but not
bad. So here's the results: (hope the tabs come out ok!)

Please remember this is *only the NMS* and not in any way representative of
"normal" Rush fans. It's not meant to be. With such a small sample, it may
not even be representative of the NMS, but anyhow...

Descrip.      Number    %age
CompSci		9	16.0%
Progr/Analyst	9	16.0%
Engineering	6	10.7%
Physics		5	 8.9%
Chem. Eng.	5	 8.9%
Elec. Eng.	4	 7.1%
Biology		4	 7.1%
Other		4	 7.1%
History		3	 5.3%
Maths		3	 5.3%
Languages	2	 3.6%
Economics	2	 3.6%

(sorry, it's kinda tough doing pie charts in ASCII!)

The percentages are rounded, so probably don't add up exactly to 100%.
Other is everything that had one person bundled together. CompSci is
Computer Science. Progr/Analyst represents anyone working in the computer
industry rather than studying (which is CompSci); this one is there because
the computing section was quite big on its' own (32%).

The original suggestion was that we mostly had a CompSci/Physics background
(which roughly = CompSci+P/A+Eng.+Elec Eng.+Physics) is, shock horror, true
- but less true than I thought. 33/56 = 58.9% of the NMS peeps are of this
nature. So not 90% as I would have thought.

Also, Important Bit!!
About the T-shirts, sounds great but how could I get one (being in the UK).
$18 is ok, but how to transfer money (especially in that format). Is visa
ok? :-) Any info welcome!

  [ You can send an international money order to that address; I've received
    them before with no problem.				  : rush-mgr ]

Also 2, Second Band.
Interesting one this... it is quite possible to suggest that in many
respects each Rush album represents a different band, the process of
evolution (ok not Darwinian but you know what I mean!) and their
experimentation, not to mention their mood even - did they kick the dog
today? - and each of these albums, I would say, I prefer to any other band's
albums. Well ok, except for maybe Rush, their first album - but remember,
great lyrics(!). (push) As an aside, I agree that Signals is a truly excellent
album, I think most of their albums have that 'no bad tracks' label on, for
me at least. (pop) Anyhow, the upshot of all this is that my 2nd favorite
band is...... Rush! Probably Power Windows Rush. (I just thought everybody
might not understand if I just said that straight) 1st is still, in this
respect, RTB Rush.

About the tape/cd... well I'd quike like it on tape! Requests for tracks are
merely Battlescar, Take Off, and the tracks from the first singles. Any boot
tracks etc. would be nice also. I'm afraid I'm currently a shoe man (i.e.
got no boots...)

To any computer types, by boot track I don't mean what you load your
operating system with!

Well, till next time huh...
-Rus
------------------------------- cut here -----------------------------
 _      _
|  | | |_  (|_ )      You have been watching, in order of appearance...
|  |_|  _| (| |)     Russell Marks : Zgedneil : mr1cy1@greenwich.ac.uk
                               --- YYZ? Because YZ! RTB! ---

------------- One likes to believe in the spirit of email ------------

----------------------------------------------------------

From: exumfs@exu.ericsson.se (Mark Steph)
Date: Fri, 27 Nov 92 12:02:50 CST
Subject: Re: Rush vs. Christian values

Mark Jager <jagerm@storm.CS.ORST.EDU> says:
> For the record, I don't find Rush to be anti-Christian,
> or anti-any-religious-belief.  That's why I'd appreciate some
> other views on this.

Well, here are a few references...  There are a lot more "one liners" that
seem to poke at religion, but these can often be taken in several different
contexts.  (Obviously, everything below can also be interpreted differently
as well, since Neil didn't discuss this stuff with me before he published
it.)

Anthem
  This song upholds the "virtue of selfishness" as described by Ayn Rand. This
  is the antithesis of (christian) religion where selflessness is one of
  the highest virtues.

2112
  A society is totally controlled by a statist religious culture.  An
  individualist shows the priests they are wrong and tries to change
  them.  He dreams of a beautiful world that was crushed by the
  Federation.

Free Will
  Free will is incompatible with a deterministic god.  Of course, everyone
  has their own ideas about the christian god, but the way he is presented
  in the Bible, he appears to be a deterministic god.

Tom Sawyer
  "His mind is not for rent to any god or government"  I would also be
  interested to hear other opinions on the lines "Catch the witness--Catch
  the wit / Catch the spirit--Catch the spit".  I assumed that this
  meant that TS would laugh at those that witnessed and spit on "the spirit".

Witch Hunt
  While this may be more about mob mentality than religion, there
  still seem to be specific references to religious mob mentality.

The Weapon
  I have argued before that this entire song is pointed at religion (or
  at least christianity).

  "He's not afraid of your Judgement/He knows
  of horrors worse than your Hell/He's a little bit afraid of dying/
  But he's a lot more afraid of your lying".  This seems very specific
  to christianity.

  "Can any part of life be larger than life?/Even love must be limited
  by time"  Does it make sense that something bigger than life--outside
  reality as we know it--could exist?  Can love be eternal?

  "Is any killer worth more than his crime?"  Isn't death the worst
  penalty you could bestow on someone that murders someone else?  Or
  should you torment him in Hell for eternity?

  "They shout about love, but when push comes to shove/They live for
  things they're afraid of"  Christians proclaim to do everything out
  of love, but instead do it out of fear of god.

Show Don't Tell
  This song seems to stress objective reality and renounce faith as
  a means of cognition.  "But apart from a few good friends/We don't
  take anything on faith".  I.e., you can have confidence in those
  that have proven they are worthy of it.

The Pass
  According to Peart, this song is about suicide.  But it seems to also
  go deeper than that.  It seems to also have an extreme distaste for
  martyrdom.  The closing lines seem to implicate Christ as the one
  that made surrender seem alright.  There is "no hero in [his] tragedy."

Roll the Bones
  "Faith as cold as ice--/Why are little ones born only to suffer/For the
  want of immunity or a bowl of rice?/Well, how would hold a price/
  On the heads of the innocent children/If there's some immortal power/
  To control the dice?"  This sounds very much like the old argument
  about suffering:  If god is all-powerful and all-knowing then he
  knows about suffering and can do something about it, so he is not
  all-benevolent.  If he is all-powerful and all-benevolent then he
  can do something and would want to, but must not be all-knowing.  If
  he is all-benevolent and all-knowing, then he must not be all powerful.

Ghost of a Chance
  "I DON'T BELIEVE IN DESTINY / OR THE GUIDING HAND OF FATE / I DON'T
  BELIEVE IN FOREVER / OR LOVE AS A MYSTICAL STATE / I DON'T BELIEVE
  IN THE STARS OR THE PLANETS / OR ANGELS WATCHING FROM ABOVE..."

-mark

Mark Steph                | Live for yourself--there's no one else
exumfs@exu.ericsson.se    | More worth living for.
 (yes, .se *is* in Texas) | Begging hands and bleeding hearts
PO Box 833875, MS L-05    | Will only cry out for more
Richardson, TX 75083      |      -Neil Peart, "Anthem"

----------------------------------------------------------

Date: 29 Nov 1992 00:41:37 -0600 (CST)
From: Jutland! <TBEAUDOIN@VAX1.UMKC.EDU>
Subject: Woodstock #25

	Quoting from today's _Kansas City Star_:

	"John Roberts, who bankrolled the legendary Woodstock music
festival, got a preliminary go-ahead this week to proceed with plans
for a 25th anniversary concert in 1994 at the original upstate New
York site. " It then goes on to say that he is trying to sign
The Dead, Baez, Santana, Airplane (or is is Starship?), the Who,
CSNY, etc... people who played Woodstock in 1969.  Now, do you think
Rush should be invited? They were playing music then, of course. Just not
big enough to be included.  Has Rush ever played an event like that?
I remember them not playing Live Aid in 1985...(or Farm Aid, for that
matter..)..

Thomas Beaudoin

----------------------------------------------------------

Date:         Sun, 29 Nov 92 14:02:42 EST
From: Cygnus.X-1<PL911141@PACEVM>
Subject:      Rush

 Dear N.M.S. subscribers,

     I do not submit mail to the national midnight star often, only when
I have a few questions... or a few comments on an important topic that
surfaces in the discussions....

  It is with this disclosed knowledge that i write the following:
  I have read the past few postings with much anticipation... The idea of
a cd or tape (preferably cd...) being released by the National midnight
star containing rare live recordings (such as skippy suggested being
comprised of older storybook tunes... The Necromancer, Hemispheres all
parts.... ) and unreleased tracks..... is an excellent idea.....
    I have told many of the rush fans at my school the idea being toiled
with by the N.M.S. and there has been nothing but 100% joy and anticipation.... 
I know that both myself, and all the rush fans here at Pace
University (new York state) (over 26 of us here)... as well as my friend
back home in Staten Island would purchase it in the blink of an eye..
      as I'm sure that at least 80% of this forum's subscribers would..

       All i have to say is...........
   1) get the permission first.......
   2) have a pole to determine the songs that it will contain.....
   3) if you have to make it a 2 tape/2 cd set to fit all the wanted songs
      on it...... do it!!!!!!!
   4) i would love to get my hands on old and rare live receordings of
      rush songs.... as well as unreleased tracks!!!!!!!!

|~~~\ |    | /~~~\ |    |    James H. Foster II: Pace University
|___/ |    | \__   |____|             Pleasentville, N.Y.
| \   |    |     \ |    |  "Plus ca' change, plus c'est la meme chose."
|   \  \__/  \___/ |    |  "The more things change, the more they stay
                            the same...."--Circumstances
------------------------------------------------------------------------

----------------------------------------------------------

To submit material to The National Midnight Star, send mail to:

    rush@syrinx.umd.edu

For administrative matters (subscription, unsubscription, changes, and 
questions), send mail to:

    rush-request@syrinx.umd.edu    or
    rush-mgr@syrinx.umd.edu

There is now anonymous ftp access available on Syrinx.  The network
address to ftp to is:

    syrinx.umd.edu       or       128.8.2.114

When you've connected, userid is "anonymous", password is <your userid>.
Once you've successfully logged on, change directory (cd) to 'rush'.

There is also a mail server available (for those unable or unwilling to
ftp).  For more info, send email with the subject line of HELP to:

    server@ingr.com

These requests are processed nightly.  Use a subject line of MESSAGE to
send a note to the server keeper or to deposit a file into the archive.

The contents of The National Midnight Star are solely the opinions and 
comments of the individual authors, and do not necessarily reflect the 
opinions of the authors' management, or the mailing list management.

Copyright The Rush Fans Mailing List, 1992.

Editor, The National Midnight Star
(Rush Fans Mailing List)
********************************************
End of The National Midnight Star Number 570
********************************************



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